Toronto officer charged with second-degree murder

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Shawshank
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Re: Toronto officer charged with second-degree murder

Postby Shawshank » Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:57 pm

Thank you. Seems weird, but I understand what you are saying, I think.
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Re: Toronto officer charged with second-degree murder

Postby IndictableChaser » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:28 pm

I'm waiting for this goonshow to be appealed.....
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Shawshank
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Re: Toronto officer charged with second-degree murder

Postby Shawshank » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:07 pm

That makes sense.

And like I said, I'm not going to make judgement on the case. I don't understand why he fired the additional shots, but I wasn't there, I don't have the evidence beyond what the media shows and that isn't something I want to base a decision from.
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Re: Toronto officer charged with second-degree murder

Postby CrispyBacon » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:12 pm

It's interesting that he was justified in firing the first round of shots, but not the second.

Any reasonable person can look at use-of-force training/procedure and understand that lethal use of force is intended to be just that: lethal. By pulling the trigger the very first time, he had made the decision that it was necessary to possibly end Yatim's life. While it's not guaranteed that the first bullet would have delivered the fatal injury, the INTENT to stop the suspect (at the cost of life, of necessary) is there. And the jury agreed with that intent.

So, by my understanding, part of the use-of-force force guidelines is that you are to continually be assessing the situation, and reevaluate whether or not lethal force needs to be continued, or if you can back down to non-lethal again. If Yatim was incapacitated after the first few shots, then maybe (obviously, none of us were there) the use-of-force should have de-escalated.

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Re: Toronto officer charged with second-degree murder

Postby blue98saturn » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:06 pm

CrispyBacon wrote:It's interesting that he was justified in firing the first round of shots, but not the second.

Any reasonable person can look at use-of-force training/procedure and understand that lethal use of force is intended to be just that: lethal. By pulling the trigger the very first time, he had made the decision that it was necessary to possibly end Yatim's life. While it's not guaranteed that the first bullet would have delivered the fatal injury, the INTENT to stop the suspect (at the cost of life, of necessary) is there. And the jury agreed with that intent.

So, by my understanding, part of the use-of-force force guidelines is that you are to continually be assessing the situation, and reevaluate whether or not lethal force needs to be continued, or if you can back down to non-lethal again. If Yatim was incapacitated after the first few shots, then maybe (obviously, none of us were there) the use-of-force should have de-escalated.



I agree with everything you said except one thing. The use of force model indicates that up to lethal force can be used to STOP/INCAPACITATE a threat ... death is just an unfortunate side effect of that use of force .....

The second statement you made is dead on ... which is why the use of force 'continuum' is a circle (constant reconsidering and readjustment of the level of force that should be applied. Once the threat hit the floor of the street car the knife (which was the threat) was no longer an immediate danger.

I don't have an opinion on the verdict because I wasn't there to see the whole picture and the media only releases what makes good news! But the trial by Youtube is definitely something that can't be denied ...

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Re: Toronto officer charged with second-degree murder

Postby Ziggy Stardust » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:58 pm

This was simply a compromise verdict by the jury.
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