Ontario Correctional Services

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AlphaCentauri
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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby AlphaCentauri » Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:26 pm

Dave Brown wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:10 pm
Mr.88 wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:09 pm
Just some small conversation. Out of curiosity, anyone know the reasoning provincial corrections has never been able to bare arms unlike federally? Was it abused back in the day or just never seen the need for it I wonder?
The right to wear short-sleeved shirts?

I always thought they could wear short-sleeved shirts. Guess I am wrong.
I think he's asking if Provincials CO's are allowed to have arms. I mean I wouldn't want to lose my arms just to become a CO. They're pretty useful. Haha :P
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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby Mr.88 » Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:04 pm

AlphaCentauri wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:26 pm
Dave Brown wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:10 pm
Mr.88 wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:09 pm
Just some small conversation. Out of curiosity, anyone know the reasoning provincial corrections has never been able to bare arms unlike federally? Was it abused back in the day or just never seen the need for it I wonder?
The right to wear short-sleeved shirts?

I always thought they could wear short-sleeved shirts. Guess I am wrong.
I think he's asking if Provincials CO's are allowed to have arms. I mean I wouldn't want to lose my arms just to become a CO. They're pretty useful. Haha :P
I meant carry firearms. :)
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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby Luskie » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:21 am

Mr.88 wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:04 pm
AlphaCentauri wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:26 pm
Dave Brown wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:10 pm

The right to wear short-sleeved shirts?

I always thought they could wear short-sleeved shirts. Guess I am wrong.
I think he's asking if Provincials CO's are allowed to have arms. I mean I wouldn't want to lose my arms just to become a CO. They're pretty useful. Haha :P
I meant carry firearms. :)
This one took me longer than i care to admit to catch on to.

Side note: What is the deal with Provincial (specifically Ontario) not wearing their body armor while on shift unless they're on an escort? that one is mind blowing to me.
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Dave Brown
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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby Dave Brown » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:23 pm

Grammar and spelling; not just for high school anymore. :D :D

One bares arms by wearing short-sleeved shirts.

One bears arms by carrying weapons.

One arms bears by giving guns to bears.

What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.
Except for bears.
Bears will kill you.


Especially bears with guns.

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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby Pete Broccolo » Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:48 am

Dave Brown wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:23 pm
Grammar and spelling; not just for high school anymore. :D :D

One bares arms by wearing short-sleeved shirts.

One bears arms by carrying weapons.

One arms bears by giving guns to bears.

What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.
Except for bears.
Bears will kill you.


Especially bears with guns.
There are times, like this, that we just simply do NOT deserve to be blessed with the wonder that is DB!
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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby redridinghood » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:35 am

Luskie wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:21 am
This one took me longer than i care to admit to catch on to.

Side note: What is the deal with Provincial (specifically Ontario) not wearing their body armor while on shift unless they're on an escort? that one is mind blowing to me.
when was the last time someone got shot inside a provincial jail?

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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby Fonthill » Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:27 pm

redridinghood wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:35 am
Luskie wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:21 am
This one took me longer than i care to admit to catch on to.

Side note: What is the deal with Provincial (specifically Ontario) not wearing their body armor while on shift unless they're on an escort? that one is mind blowing to me.
when was the last time someone got shot inside a provincial jail?
Wow, sitting here with my popcorn LOL

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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby Fonthill » Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:43 pm

Luskie wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:21 am
Mr.88 wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:04 pm
AlphaCentauri wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:26 pm


I think he's asking if Provincials CO's are allowed to have arms. I mean I wouldn't want to lose my arms just to become a CO. They're pretty useful. Haha :P
I meant carry firearms. :)
This one took me longer than i care to admit to catch on to.

Side note: What is the deal with Provincial (specifically Ontario) not wearing their body armor while on shift unless they're on an escort? that one is mind blowing to me.
Should we be wearing a protective vest, yes.

You can ask the Ministry this question but you might be waiting a couple years or never for a response. There is nothing stopping an officer for wearing one if you feel you need it on for health and safety.

And for the union, they should be fighting for us to wear them at all times.

Here is the issue. Common sense.

When your inside and dealing with inmates and you are wearing a protective vest. Inmates are not going to aim for your chest. They are going to aim for your neck or face area. So, vest isn’t going to do any good in the jail.

Certain type of searches or emergencies we put the protective vest on.

You have to have exceptional situation awareness. You have to watch inmates like they watch you. You have to watch their hands and mannerisms at all time. Always walk closest to a wall and know your escape plan at all times. Have both hands free all the time. Put keys in pocket for your self to defend your self.

And for being armed, we should be on an escort. The times have changed and should all be armed with a sidearm while on an escort.

I believe it will come as the type of land scape of criminal activity is changing and there is no fear in criminals anymore as there is no repercussions for their crimes. Every type of criminal now is saying oh it is mental health that caused it.

So anyways, focus on Communication and staying fit to make a difference of you going home at the end of the day.

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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby Bitterman » Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:47 pm

Luskie wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:21 am
Side note: What is the deal with Provincial (specifically Ontario) not wearing their body armor while on shift unless they're on an escort? that one is mind blowing to me.
Because we don't want to.
Vests are worn under certain circumstances of course, but not as regular piece of uniform.

As for firearms...
IMHO it boils down to cost and liability. The circumstance under which a CO may be able to employ a firearm defensively are so statistically insignificant as to provide next to zero justification.
As a CO, when confronted with deadly force or grievous bodily harm your job is to surrender and be a good witness.

We can't even keep up to date with our "mandatory" annual UoF re certs with batons and OC.
Adding firearms training to the mix...? Lolz.

That said... I have it from a fairly reliable source that in recent history the business case for arming Ontario COs was indeed developed. 'Rumour being all it'll take is ONE H&S work refusal and an MOL ruling in favour of doing so to get the ball rolling.
Thing is... I have NEVER met a fellow CO who thought it was a good idea or who was remotely interested in carrying a gun.


Personally... I own firearms. Handguns/rifles/shotguns. I shoot competitively and recreationally.
The day I have to carry one for work as a CO... Well, that'll be my last day on the job.
Admit nothing.
Deny everything.
Make counter accusations...

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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby Fonthill » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:35 am

Bitterman wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:47 pm
Luskie wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:21 am
Side note: What is the deal with Provincial (specifically Ontario) not wearing their body armor while on shift unless they're on an escort? that one is mind blowing to me.
Because we don't want to.
Vests are worn under certain circumstances of course, but not as regular piece of uniform.

As for firearms...
IMHO it boils down to cost and liability. The circumstance under which a CO may be able to employ a firearm defensively are so statistically insignificant as to provide next to zero justification.
As a CO, when confronted with deadly force or grievous bodily harm your job is to surrender and be a good witness.

We can't even keep up to date with our "mandatory" annual UoF re certs with batons and OC.
Adding firearms training to the mix...? Lolz.

That said... I have it from a fairly reliable source that in recent history the business case for arming Ontario COs was indeed developed. 'Rumour being all it'll take is ONE H&S work refusal and an MOL ruling in favour of doing so to get the ball rolling.
Thing is... I have NEVER met a fellow CO who thought it was a good idea or who was remotely interested in carrying a gun.


Personally... I own firearms. Handguns/rifles/shotguns. I shoot competitively and recreationally.
The day I have to carry one for work as a CO... Well, that'll be my last day on the job.
Yeah

No accountability the reason for the lack of compliance with keeping officers updated on their Use of Force.

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Bitterman
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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby Bitterman » Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:48 pm

Fonthill wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:35 am
No accountability the reason for the lack of compliance with keeping officers updated on their Use of Force.

In this regard we're often the ones (somewhat)responsible for not being up to date...

I know very few who look forward to training days... Myself included.
I'll admit I avoid them. I don't plan on doing ANY training or "refreshers" or re-certs from now on in, unless of course it's overtime... Which in many cases is the only way they can get us to participate.
I mean really... I've sat through MSA at least 29 times 88)
Admit nothing.
Deny everything.
Make counter accusations...

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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby Fonthill » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:47 am

Bitterman wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:48 pm
Fonthill wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:35 am
No accountability the reason for the lack of compliance with keeping officers updated on their Use of Force.

In this regard we're often the ones (somewhat)responsible for not being up to date...

I know very few who look forward to training days... Myself included.
I'll admit I avoid them. I don't plan on doing ANY training or "refreshers" or re-certs from now on in, unless of course it's overtime... Which in many cases is the only way they can get us to participate.
I mean really... I've sat through MSA at least 29 times 88)
Yep !

With the new causal officers coming in. They have to keep their use of force updated at all times with the contact. If it expires, contract doesn’t have to be renewed. Added stress along with no schedule they picked the perfect job lol

They can just take my spot lol

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Bitterman
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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby Bitterman » Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:38 pm

Fonthill wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:47 am

With the new causal officers coming in. They have to keep their use of force updated at all times with the contact. If it expires, contract doesn’t have to be renewed.


Image

In 30 years I've seen ONE contract not renewed... It wasn't because some BS training had expired
It's your ITM's responsibility to arrange your training.
The worst that'll happen if you somehow expire is... You won't have to do any escorts until you re cert.
Case in point... Since COVID pretty much EVERYONE is expired... Training has been suspended.
Things are pretty much normal as far as escorts are concerned.
Of course if your ITM is as competent as mine... He schedules you for a course, sends several emails reminding you of the course. It's on an RDO so its overtime.
The course gets cancelled due to COVID, but he doesn't send you ANY emails to let you know.
You show up for the course and that's when you find out there isn't one.
So... You sign for your 4 hours OT and go home.
Admit nothing.
Deny everything.
Make counter accusations...

Fonthill
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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby Fonthill » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:36 pm

Bitterman wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:38 pm
Fonthill wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:47 am

With the new causal officers coming in. They have to keep their use of force updated at all times with the contact. If it expires, contract doesn’t have to be renewed.


Image

In 30 years I've seen ONE contract not renewed... It wasn't because some BS training had expired
It's your ITM's responsibility to arrange your training.
The worst that'll happen if you somehow expire is... You won't have to do any escorts until you re cert.
Case in point... Since COVID pretty much EVERYONE is expired... Training has been suspended.
Things are pretty much normal as far as escorts are concerned.
Of course if your ITM is as competent as mine... He schedules you for a course, sends several emails reminding you of the course. It's on an RDO so its overtime.
The course gets cancelled due to COVID, but he doesn't send you ANY emails to let you know.
You show up for the course and that's when you find out there isn't one.
So... You sign for your 4 hours OT and go home.
Causal don’t get escorts anyways, but they can take them.

Yeah, I haven’t seen that happen, but always a first.

I find since being in corrections anybody put in the ITM spot is out there for a reason and it isn’t for doing something good lol.

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Re: Ontario Correctional Services

Postby AlwaysOnDuty » Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:45 pm

I’ll probably quit the day they make vests mandatory while on duty. As others have said, we wear them in specific circumstances like outside escorts or some searches, but I see no point in wearing one inside the jail... if an inmate is going to slash me he’s going to slash me vest or not.

I wore one in security for 5+ years and I don’t miss it.
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