Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

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Dave Brown
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Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby Dave Brown » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:40 pm

The complete 16X9 episode of "Under Fire" can be seen here:
http://globalnews.ca/national/program/16x9
It will also be rebroadcast several more times on the Global TV network, as well as being available for free on Shaw On Demand on Global TV.

I would welcome anyone who has seen the show to comment. Host Carolyn Jarvis is a member of this forum, and will be reading your thoughts in this thread, positive or negative. You can also contact her directly at carolyn.jarvis@globalnews.ca.

I would love to know everyone's thoughts on this program.

Personally, I thought it was fair and balanced reporting. It was also very very difficult to watch. As someone who has devoted a good part of my career to helping keep officers safe so they get to go home at the end of their shift, the images and words were very haunting.

I had only minor technical issues with the show. The RCMP dispatcher used the phonetic alphabet for the letter "g" but on the show, it was spelled "gulf" instead of "golf." The animation comparing the effects of handgun ranges versus rifle ranges used an animation of an entire cartridge, complete with primer, instead of a bullet, going downrange.

I personally thought a bit more blame for the delay in the rollout of the carbines should have been placed at the feet of the academic who, for some strange reason, was tasked with creating an evidence-based study to help the RCMP justify the expense of the patrol carbine program. I know they need carbines; every officer in North America knows they need carbines ... but to justify it to the Canadian taxpayers who are paying the bill, the RCMP needed these studies. What they got from the criminologist (who very obviously knows nothing about guns) was a shoddy, incomplete report, almost a year late. If I was a first-year criminology student and turned in that level of work, I would justifiably have gotten an F.

But again, that is only my opinion. I invite forum members to read the report for themselves and make up their own minds. Also, read the response from RCMP Commissioner Paulson. I may not always agree with him, but I agree with his criticisms of that report.

I still feel the RCMP didn't need some academic surveying a bunch of police officers to ask if they thought patrol carbines were necessary. They needed documented EVIDENCE that patrol carbines were more effective against these types of threats. They needed research on how the .223 Rem. rifle round is SAFER in an urban environment than the 9mm Luger handgun round. (Blue Line wrote just such an article last year that demonstrated conclusively that the rifle round was safer for the public than the handgun round.) They needed research on comparing the time it would take for a variety of officers at different skill levels to exit a vehicle and place two center-of-mass rounds into each of two targets placed at 3 meters, 10 meters, 25 meters, 50 meters and 100 meters, using a handgun, shotgun and rifle.

Instead, for their $92,000, they got a survey.

In this regard, I don't think 16X9 went far enough with their criticism. But then again, I am biased. While one of my degrees is in criminology, I am solidly on the side of safety for the officer on the street. To me, the RCMP is still a proud organization, with a proud past and an inspiring future. They have had many challenges and there are many yet to come, but I will never forget the day of my dad's funeral in Brandon Manitoba when he passed away at the age of 90. The church was full of red serges, proudly worn by officers, few of whom were even born when my dad retired in 1967 after 30 years with the RCMP.

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Re: Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby Dave Brown » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:50 pm

Also, just a reminder. It is a policy of this forum that the names of police killers will not be repeated in this forum. We remember the family, friends and colleagues of officers who died or were affected by these murders. We remember every law-abiding citizen of Canada who is also a victim here.

We refuse to repeat the names of those pieces of shit who commit these murders. They should, as far as we are concerned, die in obscurity.

If every potential police killer and or mass murderer knew that their names would never be repeated in the media and every Canadian only refers to them as the useless pieces of shit they are, perhaps there would be less need for officers to use these weapons and training to defend the lives of me and my fellow Canadians.

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Re: Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby Pete Broccolo » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:03 pm

Dave, forgive me if I mis-interpret your musings, but what's-his-name that did the study did what he was asked to do, just the Force discounted it. Was it ALL Paulson, or was there a poke from on-high from the PMO? I am not THAT crazy thinking like this - "Sgt Pepper" ONLY went to work during APEC after a PMO member told him to move those protesters.
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Re: Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby Dave Brown » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:25 pm

I am not saying upper management were not at fault for commissioning a study from a documented police-hating academic who has no knowledge of firearms and obviously hasn't spent one second outside the walls of academia. I think they need to share the fault. Regardless of whether it was what they wanted or not, it was still wholly inadequate.

Did this professor not even question why the RCMP would pay him that much money if all they wanted was a draft version of a shoddy and incomplete report that was a year late? Or was he in so much of a hurry to belly up to the trough that he actually thought he deserved $92,000 of taxpayers' money for a report that would have got his first year students an F? If I were him, I would feel so guilty about turning in such bad work that I would refund the RCMP most of that money in shame.

Yes, he argues that his report was only a draft, but the reality is that he sent out a few surveys, read some websites and told the RCMP what they already knew ... and it was STILL late. This is why, in my opinion, waiting an extra year for a draft version of a report labeled by many as "faulty" and "disappointing" certainly added to the delay in the rollout.

However, these are my personal feelings and they are not shared by everyone. Obviously, 16X9 does not wholly agree with me either ... which is another reason why I think it was a very fair and balanced report.

What I find almost even more insulting than the waste of time and money is the perception from this academic that he got a "medal" for his shoddy and incomplete work.

The reality is that Rod Knecht, former Senior Deputy Commissioner of the RCMP gave him a challenge coin. This just goes to show how out-of-touch this academic was, thinking a challenge coin is the same as a "medal."

This self-aggrandizing behavior should be ESPECIALLY insulting to those many brave police officers who did risk their lives to earn medals that they can proudly wear on their chest, not a trinket coin that one buys in the RCMP gift shop.

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Re: Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby Dave Brown » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:26 pm

Casey Jones wrote:If Blueline had a "Like" button, this would be worthy of it.

No need. You just did.

Thank you.

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Re: Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby Toonces » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:43 pm

Casey Jones wrote:
Dave Brown wrote:Also, just a reminder. It is a policy of this forum that the names of police killers will not be repeated in this forum. We remember the family, friends and colleagues of officers who died or were affected by these murders. We remember every law-abiding citizen of Canada who is also a victim here.

We refuse to repeat the names of those pieces of shit who commit these murders. They should, as far as we are concerned, die in obscurity.

If every potential police killer and or mass murderer knew that their names would never be repeated in the media and every Canadian only refers to them as the useless pieces of shit they are, perhaps there would be less need for officers to use these weapons and training to defend the lives of me and my fellow Canadians.


If Blueline had a "Like" button, this would be worthy of it.
Indeed. Thank you Dave.
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Re: Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby BROVO26 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:15 pm

I watched this program on Saturday at the detachment with 8 members sitting beside me. The first 10 minutes of the show were very gut wrenching and made the room uneasy. After that it was a big bitch fest! The worst part is the show is right. Piss poor training, nothing but excuses and political BS from upper management.

The most upsetting part was they were talking about Canada's federal police, no some back woods security company. The " Do more with less and shut up" policy from Ottawa is getting old and disrespectful.

"Uncle bobby" from Ottawa sent out his one sided email to the rank and file last week, this just made more members watch the show. Most white shirts are just worried about saving their own ass at the members expense.

It's just plain sicking to see the members of a once proud icon of Canada fighting to just simply stay alive as they do their job.
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Re: Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby Punisher-One » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:51 pm

Going to watch it today while doing my cardio. Thanks for the link Dave. Not having cable at the house I sometimes miss things like this.

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Re: Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby Punisher-One » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:26 pm

Firstly again my condolences to the members families and colleagues who are still going through and dealing with the aftermath of these shootings. Those guys/gals are heroes.

The documentary I found was very well done. It was unbiased and fair. It was not about trashing Police or making the Officers look bad. It did an excellent job of highlighting the concerns of members and the issues surrounding the implementation of the patrol carbine program. It is disgusting that it has and continues to take so long to get these carbines out to front-line Officers that need them. This is the problem with federal government procurement vs provincial or municipal policing. Everything needs to be studied 100 times at a cost of $2,000,000 and all the political appointments, contracts, work groups, optics, etc need to be looked at by those in charge. A municipal force has 1% of the red tape that the federal government makes agencies jump through. The fact that budget concerns trump Officer Safety is disgusting but it is the way of the federal government. Upper government managers must keep the budget in line if they want another cushy appointment somewhere up the road. I find that gets in the way of them doing the right thing. It is quite clear to me after watching this documentary where the blame for the carbine program failures lay.

The training issues are again an upper-government bureaucratic budgetary issue. The government says "save money or else" and the first thing to go is always training. The problem lies in trying to run a Law Enforcement organization like a business. It just doesn't work and it leads to situations like these. Active-shooter and tactical-shooting training programs are not "office retreats" that should be cancelled. They are life-saving training activities that are crucial for the safety of front-line Officers and members of the public. I see these things within my own agency (CBSA). They cut out our paid on-duty 6-month practice shoots because of budget. It just doesn't make sense to an officer safety perspective but it does to look good on an upper managers budget savings report. The fact that many RCMP Officers pay for their own tactical training, train on their own time and dime, and even throw their own rifles in their trunk just goes to show the opinions of front-line membership. When your front-line Officers are telling you "we need this training/tool or someone is going to die" someone in upper management should listen and heed that call. I find it very telling that KNECHT left the RCMP when he did.

All in all I think it was a good piece of reporting. Very hard to watch and listen to the radio calls. I think the RCMP upper managers and the minister in charge (BLAINEY) need to take a good hard look at what they are doing. Three members lost their lives because of bureaucratic paperwork and mismanagement of an essential program. To me as a taxpayer, a person, and a Law Enforcement Officer that is completely unacceptable. Someone should be held accountable for this.

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Re: Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby Nesdolian » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:40 pm

I also liked how neutral it came across. There didn't appear to be a political agenda or be the normal media blood-thirst type reporting. Very black and white, trying to get answers.

And people will still wonder why there is a "militarization" of police. :crazy:

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Re: Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby staggjg » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:03 pm

I like the episode, it was very balanced and fair reporting. Which is not seen often in the media for any law enforcement.

I do see a correlation with the lack of training aspect for my federal department, aka CBSA, that I work for. Its a challenge when I am expected to be proficient with my firearm and given no time to practice with it even in my off times. I live 5 hours from the nearest "certified" gun range which makes it impractical to even try for off duty practice because I am expected to return my firearm back to its safe place the DASCO at the end of the day.
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Re: Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby IndictableChaser » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:15 pm

staggjg wrote:I like the episode, it was very balanced and fair reporting. Which is not seen often in the media for any law enforcement.

I do see a correlation with the lack of training aspect for my federal department, aka CBSA, that I work for. Its a challenge when I am expected to be proficient with my firearm and given no time to practice with it even in my off times. I live 5 hours from the nearest "certified" gun range which makes it impractical to even try for off duty practice because I am expected to return my firearm back to its safe place the DASCO at the end of the day.


I thought you guys up north were authorized to do take homes due to you guys being on stand by all the time?
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Re: Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby staggjg » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:44 am

IndictableChaser wrote:
staggjg wrote:I like the episode, it was very balanced and fair reporting. Which is not seen often in the media for any law enforcement.

I do see a correlation with the lack of training aspect for my federal department, aka CBSA, that I work for. Its a challenge when I am expected to be proficient with my firearm and given no time to practice with it even in my off times. I live 5 hours from the nearest "certified" gun range which makes it impractical to even try for off duty practice because I am expected to return my firearm back to its safe place the DASCO at the end of the day.


I thought you guys up north were authorized to do take homes due to you guys being on stand by all the time?


Negative on that, I work in, now anyways, the only Port of Entry in the North that is a 24/7 operation so there is never any stand-by even for our sole Supt. And that is also for the other Ports in our Yukon District which operate from 8am to 12pm.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day :D

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Re: Global TV show 16X9, Sat March 28

Postby IndictableChaser » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:22 pm

staggjg wrote:
IndictableChaser wrote:
staggjg wrote:I like the episode, it was very balanced and fair reporting. Which is not seen often in the media for any law enforcement.

I do see a correlation with the lack of training aspect for my federal department, aka CBSA, that I work for. Its a challenge when I am expected to be proficient with my firearm and given no time to practice with it even in my off times. I live 5 hours from the nearest "certified" gun range which makes it impractical to even try for off duty practice because I am expected to return my firearm back to its safe place the DASCO at the end of the day.


I thought you guys up north were authorized to do take homes due to you guys being on stand by all the time?


Negative on that, I work in, now anyways, the only Port of Entry in the North that is a 24/7 operation so there is never any stand-by even for our sole Supt. And that is also for the other Ports in our Yukon District which operate from 8am to 12pm.

ATC for wildlife :alright:
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