Impaired Ruling

Discussion, ideas, questions and thoughts on case law.
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Python
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Impaired Ruling

Postby Python » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:15 pm

Not sure if any of you have been following the Carol Berner trial in Surrey or not. She's the woman that was charged, and now convicted, of killing a 4 year old girl in 2008 with her car.

The judge rendered his verdict yesterday and found her guilty of dangerous driving and impaired driving causing death. I was in the courtroom at the time and the judge explained that even though her blood alcohol level was as low as 60 mg per 100 ml of blood that was enough to impair her judgement and her ability to drive. He then explained how her driving on that day was markedly different than when she would normally drive that same roadway.

Obviously there's more to it than that but it was really well articulated and I think that it was a good verdict, although nothing will ever bring back little Alexa.
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Re: Impaired Ruling

Postby sportyspice » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:58 pm

Great decision.

10 impaired driving charges in one calendar year = recognition as part of "Alexa's Team"

I'm at 6 so far for the year. Working this Friday/Saturday night... should be able to get at least one more before going on holidays! :D
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Re: Impaired Ruling

Postby No 20 Year Medal » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:33 am

Yeah.... my spidey senses are tingling too after reading a few recent posts. I wonder if he knows Policediver.



(ooops, never mind, just saw the thread in the PO forum...)
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Re: Impaired Ruling

Postby stromey » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:23 pm

working RIDE tonight hopefully i can grab one...only at 2 or 3 this year
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Re: Impaired Ruling

Postby Tango5 » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:18 pm

Hey all.

Question for the Dark Side.

I just worked with a guy today that was caught by GD member sleeping in his truck ( driver seat, car running ) after partying most of the night.
I have been out with Traffic Members quite a few times but had never experienced this one.

What the guy says is:

GD member called Traffic Member assistance
Breath demand was red.
Refused ASD but asked to be tested on Datamaster in-house. ( weird )
Blew 140
Was not finger printed that night
Was released from cells.
Phoned a lawyer in the morning
Refused to be finger printed after talking to the lawyer.

Now, he has stated that his cost to the lawyer is 3500$ and the guy told him to plea not guilty as he was not caught driving, by doing this, the layer will turn this into summary conviction based on the fact that no one was hurt and his client was cooperating.

I always thought that Care and Control while intoxicated equaled DUI charge, also that refusal on road side was a full DUI charge. I haven't commented on his story.

Whats going on with this?

If the answer would cause issues due to the site being public, one can PM me.
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Re: Impaired Ruling

Postby Toonces » Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:43 am

Not driving?
Care and control.

Refused the ASD?
Charged refusal. No "datamaster" or whatever.

Refused to be fingerprinted?
Under the Indentification of Criminals Act, police can use as much force as is necessary to fingerprint an accused person.

Guy sounds like he's full of shit.
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Re: Impaired Ruling

Postby Tango5 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:50 am

That's just it, doesn't make any sense. I wasn't there so i can't say for sure what happened.
If it wasn't for his comment about the ASD I wouldn't think much about it.

His court date is coming up in mid Sept, I am interested in the outcome.
I know he didn't have to be printed that night as I have filled up some of like paper work before, while out with Traffic, setting up dates for persons to appear at other date to be printed. I just don't get how, if at all, he could go back to the station and refuse/argue.

Any way, we will see.
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Re: Impaired Ruling

Postby BROVO26 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:30 am

Podhalan wrote:Hey all.

Question for the Dark Side.

I just worked with a guy today that was caught by GD member sleeping in his truck ( driver seat, car running ) after partying most of the night.
I have been out with Traffic Members quite a few times but had never experienced this one.

What the guy says is:

GD member called Traffic Member assistance
Breath demand was red.
Refused ASD but asked to be tested on Datamaster in-house. ( weird )
Blew 140
Was not finger printed that night
Was released from cells.
Phoned a lawyer in the morning
Refused to be finger printed after talking to the lawyer.

Now, he has stated that his cost to the lawyer is 3500$ and the guy told him to plea not guilty as he was not caught driving, by doing this, the layer will turn this into summary conviction based on the fact that no one was hurt and his client was cooperating.

I always thought that Care and Control while intoxicated equaled DUI charge, also that refusal on road side was a full DUI charge. I haven't commented on his story.

Whats going on with this?

If the answer would cause issues due to the site being public, one can PM me.




Not trying to be a ass but….. DUI is an American term, Impaired driving is Canadian eh!
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Re: Impaired Ruling

Postby Tango5 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:36 am

Ofcourse. :oops:
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Re: Impaired Ruling

Postby Python » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:54 pm

Here's the judge's ruling:

http://65.55.152.121/att/GetAttachment. ... oneredir=1

I sent it to my home e-mail from work and was able to open it.
Take care and stay safe.

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Re: Impaired Ruling

Postby Tango5 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:49 pm

Link not working for me.
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Re: Impaired Ruling

Postby Python » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:39 am

I'll e-mail it to you. Not sure why it isn't working.
Take care and stay safe.

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Re: Impaired Ruling

Postby sportyspice » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:33 am

Podhalan wrote:Hey all.

Question for the Dark Side.

I just worked with a guy today that was caught by GD member sleeping in his truck ( driver seat, car running ) after partying most of the night.
I have been out with Traffic Members quite a few times but had never experienced this one.

What the guy says is:

GD member called Traffic Member assistance
Breath demand was red.
Refused ASD but asked to be tested on Datamaster in-house. ( weird )
Blew 140
Was not finger printed that night
Was released from cells.
Phoned a lawyer in the morning
Refused to be finger printed after talking to the lawyer.

Now, he has stated that his cost to the lawyer is 3500$ and the guy told him to plea not guilty as he was not caught driving, by doing this, the layer will turn this into summary conviction based on the fact that no one was hurt and his client was cooperating.

I always thought that Care and Control while intoxicated equaled DUI charge, also that refusal on road side was a full DUI charge. I haven't commented on his story.

Whats going on with this?

If the answer would cause issues due to the site being public, one can PM me.


Here's how I would handle it (in BC, Lower Mainland):

I would say charge Impaired Care or Control, but... there is no legal grounds for refusing an ASD roadside. A refusal is a refusal. Therefore, I would have charged him for Refusal at that point, which carries the same jeopardy as Impaired Care or Control (and is waaaaay easier to prove). Issued a PTA roadside and sent him home in a cab.

There is no requirement to fingerprint someone at the time of arrest. For impaireds, I ALWAYS have them return at a later date for fingerprinting, for two reasons: first, because it's easier to print them when they're sober, and second, because then I can see their behavior when they're sober, and make a note of it, and testify to it on the stand (i.e. that their behavior when sober was vastly different (perhaps) than when they were impaired.)

The lawyer won't "turn this into" a summary conviction. Either Crown will decide to proceed by way of summary conviction, or they'll go indictable. But in all likelihood they will go summary if the guy has no priors and like you said, no one got hurt/no collision, etc. So buddy is paying $3,500 to a lawyer to do what he could do himself: contact Crown directly and tell them he wants to plead guilty on first appearance if they will agree to proceed by way of summary conviction. They'll undoubtedly agree as it will save them a ton of time and money.

Edited to add: regarding the refusal of the ASD and wanting to go for the Datamaster test, you have the right to request a Datamaster test AFTER you have already provided a sample into the ASD (at least in BC you do), but not before. i.e. if you don't believe the results are accurate, you can request a BAC test. But you cannot refuse an ASD demand.
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Re: Impaired Ruling

Postby Tango5 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:52 am

Thank's for your time SportySpice.

I will find out from him whats going on sooner or later. He's plead will be Not Guilty as to not to loose his DL, as per Lawyer's advise.
There are too many unknowns and I don't want to turn this Thread to my own.
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