A renewed call for a firearms registry

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Morley

A renewed call for a firearms registry

Postby Morley » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:10 pm

A renewed call for a firearms registry :sniper:

https://behindthebluelineweb.com/2018/0 ... -registry/

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Re: A renewed call for a firearms registry

Postby IndictableChaser » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:03 pm

No
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

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Re: A renewed call for a firearms registry

Postby Hattie » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:34 am

Not for it. Especially in reference to the USA.
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Re: A renewed call for a firearms registry

Postby Bitterman » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:50 am

Fuck that... Nope...

Won't get fooled again.
Admit nothing.
Deny everything.
Make counter accusations...

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Re: A renewed call for a firearms registry

Postby Tommy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:30 am

Okay.... So other than the very broad phrasing "It's what responsible people do" there is absolutely no compelling argument as to how this registry would help anyone at any time.

I know that with a PAL I'm on file already as having a Restricted/NR PAL. I know that my Restricted FA's are registered....

But why and where is this information useful to society in general. Morley's words are "The firearms registry should never work as a tool for police" then what is the point of having it? Would a simple list stating that "Person XY has a valid license, and has firearms registered under said license" be more than sufficient?

Whenever a firearm is purchased in Canada the ownership is transferred via a phone call to the CFO. Are they not already maintaining some sort of database already?

Would the creation of a new registry not be re-inventing the wheel?

I'm not trying to sound like an asshole here. I'm just asking some questions which I feel are relevant....

The argument of "If you have nothing to hide, you wont have a problem with this" is fundamentally flawed in my opinion.

We've seen how data leaks can happen anywhere..... A list like this could pose a massive security risk if it is leaked. It'd be a Christmas list for criminals if they got their hands on it.

To be blunt, for a retired police officer, Morley's article speaks of a lot of idealistic pie in the sky type thought, which anyone who's worked more than a year in LE knows just isn't realistic.......

I also have no faith in the current governments ability to create a registry in the manner described in the article.
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Re: A renewed call for a firearms registry

Postby devilwoman » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:42 am

^ Agree completely.

My restricted rifle is registered. I went through the proper checks and balances to become the lawful owner of it. When you query my name and check the "CFRO" box, you see I own it.

I'm not sure how a registry would help police any more in their duties. Any officer going to a call to a residence will, for the most part, treat that residence and it's contents as the great unknown and act accordingly (IE will assume the possibility of firearms on site even if CFRO comes up negative).

This registry has nothing to do with me not "hiding anything" or being responsible. It's smoke and mirrors to make it appear that we are so much more preventative vs our American neighbours.

The fact of the matter is, we are safer already as our gun laws are federal vs the US where every state varies. That's the first problem. For anyone looking to do harm, this is an easy loophole if they reside on a more restrictive state that requires proper checks. Secondly, our citizens treat firearm ownership as a privilege vs a right, which goes a long way towards prevention.

Everyone can say guns are the problem and it's why there's so much violence, but I beg to disagree. It's the means. The true issues facing us stem from social problems, namely the ever increasing mental health breakdown. We, by that I mean the average community member and law enforcement, keep focusing on the wrong things when it comes to violence.....namely the guns used. We need to focus on what made that person get that gun and use it to kill large numbers of people. We need to start to understand why children are turning to such extreme violence now, where 30 years ago they would not.

A firearms registry does NOTHING to address the true causes of violence. Nor does putting armed teachers in schools, or ex military in schools. It's all band aid efforts. It's the equivalent of patching a leaking pipe vs fixing the source of the leak. You commit to constantly putting money into increasing the size of the patch vs fixing the damn problem......which costs more money in the long run.

How about our government start putting money into mental health programs for youth and at risk people? Or train teachers in recognizing violent tendencies in kids? Or maybe more money into proper mental health facilities for homeless, so officers like myself and my co-worker don't have to get into a full out fight with a guy where I end up hurt and get his blood all over my pants, my partner gets hurt and our window gets kicked out? All over a TPA issue......

Or that police don't have to face SIUs over using less lethal shotguns on a dual knife welding MHA, or lethal options on one who has stabbed someone?

Just sayin'........
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Re: A renewed call for a firearms registry

Postby Madeline236 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:44 pm

Show of hands of all officers who, when working under the old registry, were confident there were no guns while going up to a house on a call because the address came up as showing no registered guns? I suspect none.

Did legally owned gun theft go down? I'm guessing no otherwise they would have published this info everywhere to show what a great job the registry was doing.

Of course there is the standard "how many criminals registered their illegal firearms under the old system." I'd hope that answer is rhetorical.

They'd just be doing this to look like they are doing something and create some more tax funded jobs in the process.

Get stuffed.

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Re: A renewed call for a firearms registry

Postby Madeline236 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:47 pm

devilwoman wrote:^ Agree completely.

My restricted rifle is registered. I went through the proper checks and balances to become the lawful owner of it. When you query my name and check the "CFRO" box, you see I own it.

I'm not sure how a registry would help police any more in their duties. Any officer going to a call to a residence will, for the most part, treat that residence and it's contents as the great unknown and act accordingly (IE will assume the possibility of firearms on site even if CFRO comes up negative).

This registry has nothing to do with me not "hiding anything" or being responsible. It's smoke and mirrors to make it appear that we are so much more preventative vs our American neighbours.

The fact of the matter is, we are safer already as our gun laws are federal vs the US where every state varies. That's the first problem. For anyone looking to do harm, this is an easy loophole if they reside on a more restrictive state that requires proper checks. Secondly, our citizens treat firearm ownership as a privilege vs a right, which goes a long way towards prevention.

Everyone can say guns are the problem and it's why there's so much violence, but I beg to disagree. It's the means. The true issues facing us stem from social problems, namely the ever increasing mental health breakdown. We, by that I mean the average community member and law enforcement, keep focusing on the wrong things when it comes to violence.....namely the guns used. We need to focus on what made that person get that gun and use it to kill large numbers of people. We need to start to understand why children are turning to such extreme violence now, where 30 years ago they would not.

A firearms registry does NOTHING to address the true causes of violence. Nor does putting armed teachers in schools, or ex military in schools. It's all band aid efforts. It's the equivalent of patching a leaking pipe vs fixing the source of the leak. You commit to constantly putting money into increasing the size of the patch vs fixing the damn problem......which costs more money in the long run.

How about our government start putting money into mental health programs for youth and at risk people? Or train teachers in recognizing violent tendencies in kids? Or maybe more money into proper mental health facilities for homeless, so officers like myself and my co-worker don't have to get into a full out fight with a guy where I end up hurt and get his blood all over my pants, my partner gets hurt and our window gets kicked out? All over a TPA issue......

Or that police don't have to face SIUs over using less lethal shotguns on a dual knife welding MHA, or lethal options on one who has stabbed someone?

Just sayin'........


I guess i didn't need to post. DW said it all so well. :thumbsup:

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Re: A renewed call for a firearms registry

Postby Punisher-One » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:32 am

Firearms registry does nothing to enhance Public Safety. Just as the old ART system Trudeau wants to punish law abiding firearms owners with again did absolutely nothing to enhance Public safety.

Law abiding firearms owners are not the problem. Criminals with illegally obtained firearms are the problem. Tackle that issue Prime Minister Trudeau and leave law abiding firearms owners alone.

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Re: A renewed call for a firearms registry

Postby Hattie » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:35 am

Punisher-One wrote:Firearms registry does nothing to enhance Public Safety. Just as the old ART system Trudeau wants to punish law abiding firearms owners with again did absolutely nothing to enhance Public safety.

Law abiding firearms owners are not the problem. Criminals with illegally obtained firearms are the problem. Tackle that issue Prime Minister Trudeau and leave law abiding firearms owners alone.


The only public safety benefit I could see is in regards to a person who is no longer permitted to own/possess firearms and the need to seize said firearms. I do not like that idea and see major issues, but it is the closest I could think of to a 'benefit.'

In regards to USA: completely separate issues to just about any other country and difficult to compare.
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Postby Madeline236 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:16 pm

.

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Re: A renewed call for a firearms registry

Postby Hattie » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:25 am

And it looks like Florida managed to do it without a registry:

https://www.policeone.com/gun-legislation-law-enforcement/articles/472450006-Fla-police-seize-first-firearms-under-states-new-gun-control-laws/

I will admit they had prior knowledge of the firearms and it might otherwise normally have been an unknown.

I was hoping they would make such legislation to deal with mental health crises which occur after legally obtaining firearms. It gives families something to work with as well when they have concerns for the well-being of a loved one.
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Re: A renewed call for a firearms registry

Postby bigbadjoe108 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:11 am

Absolutely not.

Until there is positive control on all CONVICTED individuals who are out on parole or probation, money to keep serious habitual offenders behind bars in the first place and more money for mental health and family counselling we should not spend one cent on a registry.

Governments should lead the way and spend the money where it works, not where it buys them votes.
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Re: A renewed call for a firearms registry

Postby Tommy » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:38 pm

I would argue that more reasources to guns and gangs units, and front line border protection both at the port of entry, as well as between the ports would be a better use of money and time, opposed to a registry for guns already in Canada.

I'm still not remotely convinced that the firearms used in most of the shootings in Toronto were ever legally owned in Canada.... I'd be curious to see the stats on how many of the guns seized off of criminals were somehow smuggled into Canada vs stolen off legal owners.
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