Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
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mack_silent
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Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby mack_silent » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:25 am

The Toronto Police Service is looking at quite the list of recommendations, which include:
-Disbanding TAVIS (community patrol, that targets areas with high crime, drugs, shootings, gangs, etc.)
-Disbanding the TTC Transit Patrol Unit (police patrols of Toronto Transit Subway system)
-Exploring a change in shift scheduling for Officers.
-etc.

The recommended changes can be found in public summary here:
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/TheWayFo ... ations.php
The full public report can be found here:
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/TheWayFo ... t_full.pdf

TPS chief Saunders is visiting neighbourhoods to discuss the recommended changes, including visiting Driftwood (Jane&Finch - one of Toronto's highest crime areas / TAVIS is highly deployed here).

So far, I'm only partially through the reading:
-Concerned about TAVIS being disbanded, especially for a total cost savings of $0. (as it was provincially funded)
-I like the ideas of placing the crossing guard and life guard staffing on the shoulders of the City of Toronto. (allows resources to goto actual policing)
-I like the idea of exploring the shift schedule changes. (to help the frontline Officers) The current is: 7 days(x10hours), 6 off, 7 evenings(x10 hours), 5 off, 7 nights(x8 hours), 5 off.
-Traffic safety cameras (potential revenue generation and could penalize and deter the many terrible drivers in the city)

Anyone else care to share their thoughts?
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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby devilwoman » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:55 pm

They are exploring 12 hour shifts for TPS, which will lead to burn out even quicker. The 7 on 5 off schedule can be exhausting, but I think 12s will be way worse. I think an OPS style schedule (10.75 hour shifts) where you do 2 weeks of each shift and it's similar in nature to a continental would be a better option. 12s are long and exhausting in their own right (I've worked them for many, many years) and I can't imagine how exhausting they would be working in Toronto.

It'll be interesting to see what recommendations actually go through and which ones are kicked to the curb.
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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby Mr. Islander » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:13 pm

Dunno, I like working 12s.

Long shifts with not much down time, but the days off are sweet.

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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby Tango5 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:52 pm

A lot of members like the 4x4's
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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby mack_silent » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:50 pm

I'm currently on a 12 hour work rotation too. I like it, great for days off.
If I were a police officer in Toronto... I think 12 hours would be too long. (as DW mentioned)
I am going to read up on the 10.75 schedule, I like the 2 weeks of same shift.

Here is an interesting study on 8, 10, and 12 hour shifts for Police:
https://www.policefoundation.org/public ... xperiment/

Conclusion of this study showed that 10's were superior in most ways.
Also, I learned today that TPS crossing guards only make $11.90 / hour. Not much!
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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby devilwoman » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:15 pm

I've worked 12s for many, many years, doing various jobs, including the continental shift rotation for 7 years. Continental is great, if you work close to home.

Many TPS officers don't work and live close, having hour long or more commutes. Add in that most shifts are non-stop and court is usually on days off, 12s would make life more difficult and maintaining the work-life balance even more difficult. The only way I can see them working is if court is scheduled during day shifts.....which would turn off many as many appreciate the court time on thei cheques or in their lieu banks.
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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby Von » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:31 pm

Disbanding Transit Patrol, in light of recent terrorist attacks in Europe is an extremely bad idea IMO. A key concept in this modernization plan is becoming less reactive and more proactive, yet they want to eliminate proactive police patrols of the TTC. This will likely increase response times to potential active shooter and terrorist attacks on the subway system.
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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby mack_silent » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:59 pm

The transit patrol unit (TPU) consists of:
"78 members, 2 staff sgts, 8 sgts, 67 constables, and 1 civilian employee".

This seems like a very small number of police for 69 subway stations, with 28 more stations being added in the next 5 years. I think having the TPU redeployed elsewhere will have a negative effect on subway level crime.
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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby A.T.R. » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:47 pm

We need the 4 on 4 off 12 hour schedule.
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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby EsivarT » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:23 pm

A.T.R. wrote:We need the 4 on 4 off 12 hour schedule.


I assume by we you mean TPS.

If so, could you go further as to why you think that? Although I have no LE experience at all, just reading DW's post made me feel like that /would/ be a bad idea.
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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby Von » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:34 pm

mack_silent wrote:The transit patrol unit (TPU) consists of:
"78 members, 2 staff sgts, 8 sgts, 67 constables, and 1 civilian employee".

This seems like a very small number of police for 69 subway stations, with 28 more stations being added in the next 5 years. I think having the TPU redeployed elsewhere will have a negative effect on subway level crime.


It is a small number, especially considering how small the TTC Transit Enforcement is as well.
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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby devilwoman » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:35 pm

You'll never have enough, nor will they, for the most part, ever be in the right spot at right time. I worked on a university campus for years and every single time something happened it was always a case of "I was just there!" Or "Dammit! That's across campus!". Every. Single. Time.

Policing a transit system is even worse as mobility is even greater for the bad guys and they can easily blend with the every day commuters.....especially come winter when the description of someone is "wearing a black or dark coat, dark pants with a dark bag." On a rare occasion, they'll have a splash of colour on their bag or coat, but in the crush of people it is, literally, the human equivalent of finding a needle in a haystack. Add in all the different locations a person can exit and routes they can take.....well, you get the idea. Even better, Jays or Leafs games when the description includes the pre-requisite Jersey, hat or T-shirt....

Unless you have officers riding every train, at every station, in every line, it's a near impossible task for the system to be adequately covered.
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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby John014 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:37 pm

EsivarT wrote:
A.T.R. wrote:We need the 4 on 4 off 12 hour schedule.


I assume by we you mean TPS.

If so, could you go further as to why you think that? Although I have no LE experience at all, just reading DW's post made me feel like that /would/ be a bad idea.



I love the 4X4 shifts.

I feel refreshed getting back on shift for first day.
Work two days and enjoy having a "friday" mid work week.
Work two nights and then enjoy my weekend again.

It is great and I wouldn't trade it.
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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby No 20 Year Medal » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:43 pm

And if you take one block of 4 off, you get 12 days off.
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Re: Toronto Police - Modernization Changes

Postby EsivarT » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:28 pm

Oh yeah. Based off of the choices, I personally like the sound of the 4/4 12h. I was just wondering if it was good for a service such as TPS. I don't know the call loads they receive daily but something tells me it's higher in comparison to other GTA services.
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