Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

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human
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby human » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:30 am

I wonder why nobody cares to look at the North European countries as an example. (Info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Europe) The way the Netherlands conducted their business seem to have been quite successful. When I was following cases of human trafficking (as a journalist) the best info we could get was from countries with legalized systems, where anything out of place would be noticed quickly. Bonus, said countries dealt less with HT exactly for this reason.

Obviously prostitution can't be eradicated. They tried total eradication with the US alcohol prohibition, and it failed miserably (no, wait, it made matters worse). So I think we should probably be less offended by the nature of the activity, and try to seek the benefits of having it controlled. It's more money poured into local / municipal budgets and more employment (think only of the healthcare personnel needed if it gets regulated properly, let alone other adjacent services). It would also keep pimps at bay, would allow for better health control and less STD propagation... and I'll stop here.
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recceguy
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby recceguy » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:06 pm

Legalize it, open brothels, and tax it.....problem solved.

Leave street walking prostitution illegal as it serves no purpose other than fueling OC. The ladies of the night can claim they are just trying to make a living all they want....but they aren't kidding anyone...they are chasing their next hit.
Last edited by recceguy on Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby Hired Goon » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:58 pm

The balance is to try and reduce the victimization of those forced or trapped in the industry.

human wrote:I wonder why nobody cares to look at the North European countries as an example. (Info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Europe) The way the Netherlands conducted their business seem to have been quite successful.


Northern European countries are often looked at, but they are not without their problems either. I did some work relating to trying to reduce prostitution in some neighbourhoods and in speaking to some experts, legalizing it can increase the amount of human trafficking and victimization. Case in point, the article you linked to goes on to say:

Netherlands is listed by the UNODC as a top destination for victims of human trafficking.

and
Often the prostitution laws are not clear-cut and are subject to interpretation, leading to many legal loopholes.

and
In many places there is a big discrepancy between the laws which exist on the books and what happens in practice.


Frankly, I think the SCC dropped the ball on some of this. Having worked with communities that experience prostitution, one of the worst things for people is having their young daughters solicited, and having condoms and needles dumped on their property. Striking down the communication in public section eliminated any leverage police had to keep residential neighbourhoods free of the activity. Most agencies had moved to trying to keep johns out of communities.

Further, the "living off the avails" section already contained case law that required the offence to be of a predatory nature. It was referred to as the anti-pimping law. Not sure who gets protected by striking down an anti pimping law. The pimps I guess?

The only upside is that the court gave the government some time to draft new laws.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby Longarm9 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:55 pm

Make the whole thing illegal. Tell the SCC to stick that in their pipe and smoke it.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby Punisher-One » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:26 pm

Longarm9 wrote:Make the whole thing illegal. Tell the SCC to stick that in their pipe and smoke it.


Agreed.

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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby shootemup » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:55 pm

They're smoking something, and I'm pretty sure it is illegal too...
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby Longarm9 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:02 am

shootemup wrote:They're smoking something, and I'm pretty sure it is illegal too...


Ain't that the truth!
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby To a T » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:34 pm

:ponder:
Last edited by To a T on Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby Longarm9 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:51 am

To a T wrote:So because something can't be eradicated, it should be legalized??


I was thinking the same thing. Murder can't be eradicated either...first crime in history. Maybe we should legalize it... :crazy:
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby gotchya » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:42 pm

Longarm9 wrote:
To a T wrote:So because something can't be eradicated, it should be legalized??


I was thinking the same thing. Murder can't be eradicated either...first crime in history. Maybe we should legalize it... :crazy:


The issue was not whether prostitution should be legalized or criminalized, it was whether the means chosen by Parliament engaged s.7 (deprived individuals of life, liberty and security of person).

Canada (Attorney General) v. Bedford, 2013 SCC 72 (CanLII), <http://canlii.ca/t/g2f56>
[5] However, prostitution itself is not illegal. It is not against the law to exchange sex for money. Under the existing regime, Parliament has confined lawful prostitution to two categories: street prostitution and “out-calls” — where the prostitute goes out and meets the client at a designated location, such as the client’s home. This reflects a policy choice on Parliament’s part. Parliament is not precluded from imposing limits on where and how prostitution may be conducted, as long as it does so in a way that does not infringe the constitutional rights of prostitutes.


Again, this "win" might be short lived if Parliament is to enact laws prohibiting prostitution entirely.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby El Conejo » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:32 pm

I'm going to back into my sociology degree here, because it seems the irony must be lost on many people.

Parliament created the current set of prostitution laws in the mid-80's because the previous law was ruled my the SCC to contravene the Charter because it made it illegal to be a prostitute, rather than engage in the act of prostitution.

The Fraser (I think) Commission was formed to study a solution that equally punished buyer and seller (the old statute grossly over-penalized the prostitute) and that was in line with the code and enforceable/investigatable. The Commission purposefully chose to not make the act of prostitution illegal for two reasons. 1, it would again tend to unfairly penalize the women involved (apparently male prostitutes aren't a concern) and most importantly, the commission was concerned that this would create an unenforceable (in a practical sense) law whereby the police would have to wait until a sexual act had occurred and money had exchanged hands. This would involve (as the commission saw it) unpalatable investigations on the part of the police where they would either have to engage in sexual acts with prostitutes to convict them, or would have to "peep" into hotel rooms and observe the acts in progress.

For that reason the Commission and Parliament settled on "communication for the purpose" as the standard offence as it would be fairly easy to prosecute and would equally penalize both parties. I personally think the whole "well, prostitution's not even illegal" argument is a red herring, because there is a good reason it's not. It seems that 30 years ago must be ancient history for some people/judges/politicians.

Forgive me if a few of the details are off, I'm too lazy to go blow the dust off my notes in the basement.

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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby gotchya » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:54 am

For those interested, the government is seeking your opinion on what Canada's prostitution laws should be.
http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cons/curr- ... index.html
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby Von » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:58 pm

gotchya wrote:For those interested, the government is seeking your opinion on what Canada's prostitution laws should be.
http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cons/curr- ... index.html


Legalize it, regulate it, tax it. Put them all in brothels with security, problem solved.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke

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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby mack_silent » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:03 pm

The topic is not that simple, and opens quite the proverbial can of worms.
Legalizing and regulating something, does not intrinsically remove the negative harms from it.
Alcohol and tobacco can be seen as historical examples of this... and in the modern viewpoint; marijuana.

Prostitution, even with imposed regulations for health testing (IE: Monthly checks for STD / HIV AIDS), will not inherently protect society.
The signs and symptoms of various communicable diseases which would create a positive test result, are often days, weeks or months behind the capabilities of spreading such harms.
In the meantime, someone with a serious sexual health related disease in this industry, will be actively infecting dozens or hundreds of "clients".
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby dira necessitas » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:41 pm

Not too mention the down turn of your neighbourhood when a brothel opens up next door to your house.
I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but let's take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself.


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