University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Discussion, ideas, questions and thoughts on case law.
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devilwoman
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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby devilwoman » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:47 pm

did you guys tie each other up back at the office? Please say this didn't involve assless chaps?


Doooooooodeee.....if you knew what the officers looked like back then, that is DEFINITELY not the mental picture you'd be wanting in your head!
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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby Tommy » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:17 am

devilwoman wrote:
did you guys tie each other up back at the office? Please say this didn't involve assless chaps?


Doooooooodeee.....if you knew what the officers looked like back then, that is DEFINITELY not the mental picture you'd be wanting in your head!


Image

This is the ONLY mental picture I want in my head with regards to Chaps..... :mrgreen:
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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby Bald Man » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:09 am

meathead1 wrote:aren't all chaps, by definition, assless? Otherwise they are just pants.


yes, but it sounds funny.

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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby Bald Man » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:11 am

That reminds me......Back when I started we had a set of restraints for MHA matters. They were leather with sheepskin lining. They were soft and comfortable....and worked very nicely. :mrgreen:[/quote]

did you guys tie each other up back at the office? Please say this didn't involve assless chaps? :lol:[/quote]

Image[/quote]

oh god, now we're talkin :twitch:

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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby Dave Jenkins » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:45 am

devilwoman wrote:
did you guys tie each other up back at the office? Please say this didn't involve assless chaps?


Doooooooodeee.....if you knew what the officers looked like back then, that is DEFINITELY not the mental picture you'd be wanting in your head!


We did have a couple of dispatchers that were...... :thumbsup: and over the years we had some officerettes that were :thumbsup: They haven't all been :twitch: ......

And I think you know one of the biggest pervs is a female officer (or two). Ask E. K. about the time he came running out the office to check out the scream and found me on my tippy-toes :shock: in response to a female officers actions. The dangers of horse play like grab-ass (or pinch-ass, slap-ass) is ya got to get the timing right and the aim. A handful of something other than ass was got....... 88) I was indisposed for a moment of three and she went and had a smoke...... :roll: That SOB E. K. just laughed his ass off. That was over twenty years ago and he still reminds me and I am still traumatized :twitch:
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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby Dave Jenkins » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:47 am

Bald Man wrote:
meathead1 wrote:aren't all chaps, by definition, assless? Otherwise they are just pants.


yes, but it sounds funny.


Image
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby devilwoman » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:06 am

And I think you know one of the biggest pervs is a female officer (or two).


Some of the females are just better at hiding it. :smirk:
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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby RemingtonSteel » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:13 pm

I never understood the mentality here. So you were caught violating laws on a campus and were issued a ticket by a special constable. Why instead of just admitting that yes you broke the law and paying the fine, you choose to make it into an issue of officer authority vs private property and HTA status etc. You ran a stop sign, you got caught, pay the fine and move on with your life. Accept responsibility for your actions and the consequences of such. It's only 30 bucks anyway, not worth getting excited over:

http://parking.mcmaster.ca/Citations_Payments.html
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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby Dave Jenkins » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:23 pm

What I always found amusing where the ones that had a parent's vehicle and were chronic offenders until official paperwork was delivered to the registered owner of said vehicle. :twisted: An invite to attend court for a TPA charge generally gets mom/dad tuned into the program.

To Smitty......there is always more than one way to skin a cat as they say. You are looking at these stops as to whether or not they are HTA worthy when in fact in these cases it has nothing to do with the HTA or public roadways. Do these special constable have a right to stop you? Yes! Do you have to stop....we could debate that till the cows come home but why bother. If you commit a traffic violation (a university regulation...no big deal) on say the McMaster campus and play silly bugger then the good old catch all, the Trespass to Property Act, comes into play. Once that takes place the game rules change.
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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby devilwoman » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:03 pm

on say the McMaster campus and play silly bugger then the good old catch all, the Trespass to Property Act, comes into play. Once that takes place the game rules change.


And even if you get away (as we don't pursue vehicles), records checks will assist us in finding you. I always enjoy the look on people's faces when i come knocking on their door or into their class.
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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby Bald Man » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:42 am

Smitty, as pointed out by some university special constables, they do in fact have the authority to pull you over. Since they have the authority to pull you over, then the criminal code comes into to play if you fail to do so. What does this mean? It makes it a criminal offence to fail to stop for a special constable. FYI, special constables and police officers are both peace officers as defined by the criminal code of canada. Therefore when dealing with a special constable is no different than dealing with a police officer.

Flight

249.1 (1) Every one commits an offence who, operating a motor vehicle while being pursued by a peace officer operating a motor vehicle, fails, without reasonable excuse and in order to evade the peace officer, to stop the vehicle as soon as is reasonable in the circumstances.
Punishment

(2) Every one who commits an offence under subsection (1)

(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby A.T.R. » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:11 am

RemingtonSteel wrote:I never understood the mentality here. So you were caught violating laws on a campus and were issued a ticket by a special constable. Why instead of just admitting that yes you broke the law and paying the fine, you choose to make it into an issue of officer authority vs private property and HTA status etc. You ran a stop sign, you got caught, pay the fine and move on with your life. Accept responsibility for your actions and the consequences of such. It's only 30 bucks anyway, not worth getting excited over:

http://parking.mcmaster.ca/Citations_Payments.html


What is the process to address the charge in front of a tribunal or independent trier of fact?

Admitting is one thing, but under the Charter, he does not need to admit anything. It would be up to the S/Cst to prove the violation occurred and someone from a tribunal via the University to make a finding of guilt or no-guilt on his behalf.

Why admit it when there is the chance the ticket was issued improperly. Errors fatal to the charge, mistakes on the face, etc.

If there is a charge of something, where there is a definate consequence, then this falls under the Charter where access to a trial has to be given.
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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby A.T.R. » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:16 am

^Sorry.....link finally opened.

However it doesn't appear that an appeal will always be granted.
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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby devilwoman » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:52 am

However it doesn't appear that an appeal will always be granted.


They usually do grant an appeal. Rarely have I seen someone not get one. With that being said, one of our biggest problems going on is students and staff trying to defraud the parking system (I won't say how, but let's just say we've been charging people criminally, that's how extensive it is....not talking $100) and we have video cameras on EVERY entrance and exit of the parking lots. People feel entitled and feel they have a right to park for free (let the record show I pay for parking....same amount as everyone else), so no one gets it for free.

As for stop signs/etc.....I, for the most part, give warnings, and if the infraction is so bad (ie failing to stop for a stop sign and driving like an idiot), I will go criminally (dangerous operation). I have done this in the past where some fool has jumped the parking lot curbs, jumped another curb, causing pedestrians to scatter out of the way, etc.....he was charged and pled.

Also, for the record, yes it is private property, but it doesn't mean stop signs are "stoptional"....for the most part, they are placed at pedestrian crosswalks and, speaking from experience, most of the pedestrians on a campus will NOT heed the way to cars. In fact, most pedestrians will be too busy texting or with their heads down listening to Ipods to even notice cars and will walk right out into the crosswalk w/o looking.......in fairness to them, it is a crosswalk and there is a stop sign there, so I can see why they'd assume a vehicle would stop. Hell, I've been parked and had someone who was texting walk into the side of my patrol car. Drivers on the campus need to be aware and pay attention and abide by the stop signs. As much as pedestrians need to be more cautious, drivers are operating 3000lb weapons, so they have a much bigger responsibility here. They may think they're (stop signs and speed limits on campus) bogus, but one day, a pedestrian (who is not paying attention) is going to assume they have the right of way at a crosswalk and you're going to end up making them a hood ornament. Then a university regulations ticket will be the least of your concerns.

So feel free to fight your ticket and you can explain your actions to our Director (who is a retired HPS Superintendent) and I'm sure he will be sympathetic to your arguments as to why you feel you can not obey campus regulations and not have to stop for us. I'm sure he will be VERY attentive.
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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Postby gotchya » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:06 pm

devilwoman wrote:They usually do grant an appeal. Rarely have I seen someone not get one. With that being said, one of our biggest problems going on is students and staff trying to defraud the parking system (I won't say how, but let's just say we've been charging people criminally, that's how extensive it is....not talking $100) and we have video cameras on EVERY entrance and exit of the parking lots. People feel entitled and feel they have a right to park for free (let the record show I pay for parking....same amount as everyone else), so no one gets it for free.

So feel free to fight your ticket and you can explain your actions to our Director (who is a retired HPS Superintendent) and I'm sure he will be sympathetic to your arguments as to why you feel you can not obey campus regulations and not have to stop for us. I'm sure he will be VERY attentive.

Who holds the burden of proof? What is the bar that must be met? Balance of Probabilities, Reasonable Grounds, Beyond a Reasonable Doubt.
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