494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Discussion, ideas, questions and thoughts on case law.
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Lights
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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby Lights » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:53 am

wow what a JOKE, and this is where bad case law comes from.
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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby DJM » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:05 am

Tango5 wrote:First > The "bitch"? And the "fucker"? :shame:

Secondly > So, in the past, you have administered testing you are not legally authorized to do... Did any of this "Unauthorized testing" ever go to court or did you just get lucky?

---
x2 @Toonces


Which law does it state I am breaking the law for doing tests under consent of the subject. Secondly I never arrested someone on basis of my test results. There is no possible way the testing can bite me in the ass cus I never arrested someone on the results of them I told them I think they need to get a cab and they agreed. All tests were under full consent of the person. And yes I dropped a few curse words sorry I stated how I fealt like cops never swear

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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby mack_silent » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:11 am

Tip to all security guards: Arrest only as a last resort.
A security guard has no way to prove the blood alcohol level in someone's system.
Please leave the policing to the police. They're good at what they do.

If you're dealing with an abundance of DUI related issues at this mall, then consider reporting the on-site bar(s) to alcohol license enforcement for inspection.
Establishments have to serve alcohol in a responsible manner. Stop the problem at the source.
Last edited by mack_silent on Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby Lights » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:12 am

.
“No matter what happens, I simply refuse to lose. To me, it’s really that simple.

I approach anything thought to be difficult with an attitude of “I’ll do this or die trying.” U.S NAVY SEAL.

POLICE OFFICER

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Toonces
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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby Toonces » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:15 am

DJM wrote:
Toonces wrote:As an OPP officer, I wouldn't want anything to do with you and your lack of professionalism. I am specifically speaking to your post above. Chosing to exercise a right to a trial does not make a woman a bitch. Further, I am trained to do SFSTs. You have no business doing these tests without proper training and accreditation.

You display an appalling attitude. Your company should distance themselves from you, and quick.


Your right a woman excersizing a right to a fair trail isn't a bitch but I'm not calling her a bitch for that I'm calling her a bitch as stated by police themselves cus she kicked out an officers knee, headbutted her lawyer, smashed the window out of the cop car, and attempted to endanger the lives of innocent people by driving behind the wheel while impaired. Yes I get I dropped a few curse words but I know cops are just as guilty. As far as the tests go all persons consented and had the right to refuse and I never arrested on the results of the tests just told them to go home which most did.
My point is completely lost on you.
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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby Lights » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:15 am

DJM wrote:
Tango5 wrote:First > The "bitch"? And the "fucker"? :shame:

Secondly > So, in the past, you have administered testing you are not legally authorized to do... Did any of this "Unauthorized testing" ever go to court or did you just get lucky?

---
x2 @Toonces


Which law does it state I am breaking the law for doing tests under consent of the subject. Secondly I never arrested someone on basis of my test results. There is no possible way the testing can bite me in the ass cus I never arrested someone on the results of them I told them I think they need to get a cab and they agreed. All tests were under full consent of the person. And yes I dropped a few curse words sorry I stated how I fealt like cops never swear



I am seriously shocked, I CANT SHAKE MY HEAD HARDER..
Last edited by Lights on Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
“No matter what happens, I simply refuse to lose. To me, it’s really that simple.

I approach anything thought to be difficult with an attitude of “I’ll do this or die trying.” U.S NAVY SEAL.

POLICE OFFICER

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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby Lights » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:16 am

wow
“No matter what happens, I simply refuse to lose. To me, it’s really that simple.

I approach anything thought to be difficult with an attitude of “I’ll do this or die trying.” U.S NAVY SEAL.

POLICE OFFICER

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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby mack_silent » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:25 am

DJM - You're a security guard. You're not a police officer. Stop pretending to be one.
It 100% can bite you in the ass, when you tell someone they are okay to drive and they crash their car.
It can also bite you in the ass, when you arrest someone for suspicion they are intoxicated, and they press assault charges for unlawful arrest.

Your company is incredibly ignorant if they're:
-telling you to "arrest more".
-putting you alone into dangerous positions such as night time mall security.
-not creating "standing orders" and training that dictate proper protocols for responding to situations such as DUI.

DJM wrote:Which law does it state I am breaking the law for doing tests under consent of the subject. Secondly I never arrested someone on basis of my test results. There is no possible way the testing can bite me in the ass cus I never arrested someone on the results of them I told them I think they need to get a cab and they agreed. All tests were under full consent of the person. And yes I dropped a few curse words sorry I stated how I fealt like cops never swear
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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby DJM » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:47 am

mack_silent wrote:DJM - You're a security guard. You're not a police officer. Stop pretending to be one.
It 100% can bite you in the ass, when you tell someone they are okay to drive and they crash their car.
It can also bite you in the ass, when you arrest someone for suspicion they are intoxicated, and they press assault charges for unlawful arrest.

Your company is incredibly ignorant if they're:
-telling you to "arrest more".
-putting you alone into dangerous positions such as night time mall security.
-not creating "standing orders" and training that dictate proper protocols for responding to situations such as DUI.

DJM wrote:Which law does it state I am breaking the law for doing tests under consent of the subject. Secondly I never arrested someone on basis of my test results. There is no possible way the testing can bite me in the ass cus I never arrested someone on the results of them I told them I think they need to get a cab and they agreed. All tests were under full consent of the person. And yes I dropped a few curse words sorry I stated how I fealt like cops never swear


Well clearly I just need to be a little bitch and not do shit then, ok well that isn't going to happen. I know I'm not a police officer why you think I put security in the title. Anyways I was looking for professional answers and I got back basically the equivilant of bullying so clearly professionalism can't be found here. You bash a guy who asked a question before he acted on grounds to see potential reprocussions. How much of an as***** you trying to be to people. Anyways as a security guard I will go back to doing nothing and being useless when I thought it was good to help out police a bit. I'm done asking questions here.

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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby DJM » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:52 am

Alright everybody so here is what I'm doing just so we are clear, first of all I'm not alone four other guards are present with me. I will call police and let the driver walk away without any talk to what so ever and just let it be. Guess I can't save everyone.

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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby Toonces » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:07 am

DJM wrote:Well clearly I just need to be a little bitch and not do shit then, ok well that isn't going to happen. I know I'm not a police officer why you think I put security in the title. Anyways I was looking for professional answers and I got back basically the equivilant of bullying so clearly professionalism can't be found here. You bash a guy who asked a question before he acted on grounds to see potential reprocussions. How much of an as***** you trying to be to people. Anyways as a security guard I will go back to doing nothing and being useless when I thought it was good to help out police a bit. I'm done asking questions here.
Interesting your complete lack of professionalism, yet you lament the "lack of professionalism" in the responses you received.
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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby subbie » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:07 am

I don't know why I feel the need to post here but, I am currently eating, on a break, at work, as a security guard, at a mall, on night shift, that has a bar on site, and after reading all of this I can not help but to agree with what everyone is saying. Read your post orders. Know them. That is what we are paid to do. Just like one individual has said, patrol observe and report. The company I am contracted by says last resort is arrest. Never we need more arrests. Why would they need more? If that was the case then a better employer is what you need. Inform your supervisor, this is what I am observing how can we stop this. Get a plan in place. Inform the bar that this is getting out of hand. A on going issue. Like one individual has said, stop it at its source. Inform the property owner as well who can crack down even harder on the bar as it operates on property. Patrol.... and find the individual in question that MAY be drunk. observe.... they are about to drive. Report..... it to POLICE immediately and you can stop the individual from driving without arresting them. The bar must have a manager willing to assist you or internal security that would support you if you were working alone. At the end of the day they will help because they will be at fault for over serving this person. They will want to stop it from happening just as much as you.

In my experience I have personally had times where yes I could have handcuffed someone but I am not the POLICE. In my experience I have had a much easier time working with constables who appreciated much much more that I wasn't a superhero and arrested everyone I could have. They appreciate it more when I can control whats mine to control and cover off my basis and leave the law enforcement aspect to them. If THEY ASK for security support in assisting them with an apprehension ( I have had that happen ) then sure. Assist. We do not go through the same training to positively identify someone who may be impaired. Having a smart serve would not even save you if you had to go to court and articulate when asked how you knew the individual was impaired. These guys go through super specific training on this and lets leave it to them. Yes security can be a good way to gain competencies but if your mind set is arrest arrest arrest no one will A) be impressed, B) back you up because you now pose as a liability C) the local platoon who may be on shift and visit the property for whatever reason will not want to work with you.

please also stop using "cus" in place of because and swearing because your also asking 100% for the verbal spanking that is being received. No one on here is bullying you. You would have been reciprocated more if you did not post silly comments in response with spelling in text message form and swearing. Think outside the box on this one. You can 100% HELP stop it from happening without the use of force and arresting someone. You are not doing nothing by being a security guard. That is insulting and making it seem like those that are, who may take pride in it do nothing and bud... I do not DO NOTHING. People will be more impressed that you went to that length and got a positive outcome from it then just resorting to 494 and arresting. you will also have an excellent example come interview time when they want you to tell them a time when.
Last edited by subbie on Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby Toonces » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:08 am

DJM wrote:... Guess I can't save everyone.
No one can.
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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby DJM » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:35 am

subbie wrote:I don't know why I feel the need to post here but, I am currently eating, on a break, at work, as a security guard, at a mall, on night shift, that has a bar on site, and after reading all of this I can not help but to agree with what everyone is saying. Read your post orders. Know them. That is what we are paid to do. Just like one individual has said, patrol observe and report. The company I am contracted by says last resort is arrest. Never we need more arrests. Why would they need more? If that was the case then a better employer is what you need. Inform your supervisor, this is what I am observing how can we stop this. Get a plan in place. Inform the bar that this is getting out of hand. A on going issue. Like one individual has said, stop it at its source. Inform the property owner as well who can crack down even harder on the bar as it operates on property. Patrol.... and find the individual in question that MAY be drunk. observe.... they are about to drive. Report..... it to POLICE immediately and you can stop the individual from driving without arresting them. The bar must have a manager willing to assist you or internal security that would support you if you were working alone. At the end of the day they will help because they will be at fault for over serving this person. They will want to stop it from happening just as much as you.

In my experience I have personally had times where yes I could have handcuffed someone but I am not the POLICE. In my experience I have had a much easier time working with constables who appreciated much much more that I wasn't a superhero and arrested everyone I could have. They appreciate it more when I can control whats mine to control and cover off my basis and leave the law enforcement aspect to them. If THEY ASK for security support in assisting them with an apprehension ( I have had that happen ) then sure. Assist. We do not go through the same training to positively identify someone who may be impaired. Having a smart serve would not even save you if you had to go to court and articulate when asked how you knew the individual was impaired. These guys go through super specific training on this and lets leave it to them. Yes security can be a good way to gain competencies but if your mind set is arrest arrest arrest no one will A) be impressed, B) back you up because you now pose as a liability C) the local platoon who may be on shift and visit the property for whatever reason will not want to work with you.

please also stop using "cus" in place of because and swearing because your also asking 100% for the verbal spanking that is being received. No one on here is bullying you. You would have been reciprocated more if you did not post silly comments in response with spelling in text message form and swearing. Think outside the box on this one. You can 100% HELP stop it from happening without the use of force and arresting someone. You are not doing nothing by being a security guard. That is insulting and making it seem like those that are, who may take pride in it do nothing and bud... I do not DO NOTHING. People will be more impressed that you went to that length and got a positive outcome from it then just resorting to 494 and arresting. you will also have an excellent example come interview time when they want you to tell them a time when.


I get 100 percent ur perspective but here's how our company works. We don't have post orders at that site. Company is so disorganized second I am the supervisor for that site, the site has four guards on at a time for overnights. There has been countless reports made of the bar throughout the years and yes the bar security does back us up. I am never alone at that site we always patrol in pairs the person who said I'm alone assumed I was alone. Also in regards to the text, I am just typing through a cell phone and thought it was an informs conversation but clearly it is expected to be done up like I'm making a crown brief. Clearly I didnt get the memo people want everything professionally written. Now as for last resort I never deviated from that once, I always try to communicate and get my partner to call police while I stall the person. I could have made 100 of arrests if i just arrested for everything but I have only arrested six times because it got to the point where I had to. As for why more arrests sadly job security. Clients are cheap and if hey could just get the cleaners to call police everytime and be done with it no reason to pay extra for security. If the client sees arrest after arrest client sees that cleaners can't do the job and they need to hire security. Sadly that is contract security for you. It is so disorganized at our company I wrote the post orders for the site

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Re: 494 CC security CARE AND CONTROL

Postby DJM » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:01 am

To all the guys who I spoke to badly my sincerest apologies. I guess I took the your a security guard not a cop thing as an insult as I got it way too much from drunk people at work who just try refuse to listen to me for things like being told to leave but that is no excuse. I was way to aggressive with my words.


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