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Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:02 pm
by gotchya
GoodWitness wrote:This discussion reminded me of a piece I listened to one evening on CBC, concerning university students who were disciplined for publicly criticizing a professor. It became a charter case and the courts came down on the side of the students, saying essentially that a university, being publicly funded and carrying out their roles under various gov't acts, are bound by the charter.
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2011/11/16/university-of-calgary-vs-free-speech/

The university continues to challenge the ruling, saying that it impinges on their autonomy. While I completely agree that people need to abide by the rules of the institution, the fact that they could be denied the right to defend themselves against a charge would seem to go against the charter.

Pridgen v. University of Calgary, 2010 ABQB 644 (CanLII), <http://canlii.ca/t/2cxd9> an interesting read.

I think the issue at bar is not that students should or shouldn't be punished and the need for laws and rules to maintain public order. I don't think anyone on here would argue against rules to ensure public order.

My question is, what is the need for the S.Cst status (and ability to enforce various laws) if these matters can be dealt with via the university's Code of Conduct?

Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:58 pm
by devilwoman
My question is, what is the need for the S.Cst status (and ability to enforce various laws) if these matters can be dealt with via the university's Code of Conduct?


Not all can and that's the need.

Also, its because every time someone commits a crime, we are called to investigate it. Through our investigation, we determine the severity of the crime, speak to the "victims" and determine if a criminal charge is warranted. We are, essentially, the police for McMaster. The big difference between us and HPS (minus the gun/no gun debates, etc) is the fact that when a crime does occur on our little slice of heaven, and its something that the courts probably wouldn't touch, we have the Student Code/Residence Code to fall back on. HPS envies us in that regard as there is always a way for people to see some form of penalty for their bad behaviour.

You can say in house security can do all that, but the fact of the matter is, they can't. There are many times when we need access to information that, w/o being sworn, we would not get and it would prevent a thorough and proper investigation. Additionally, its been said time and time again, HPS doesn't want to deal with much of the stuff we deal with, such as arresting a repeat offender bike thief. Its low priority for them. Look at York University as a prime example....you can't adequately "police" a campus w/o status. I'm also of the opinion that any campus that doesn't offer a sworn compliment of security/safety personnel is negligent to their staff, students and visitors.

And, no disrespect to police services/officers who work in cities where university po-po operate, they don't have the time for being called for every thief the campus peeps arrest. Its not that they can't do it, but honestly, their skills are much better served policing their city not a city within that city.

Its like saying why do the CBSA need LEO status or firearms? Can't a guard do the same job? Keep in mind, I'm not disrespecting CBSA folks in any way, I'm just pointing out there are reasons why things are in place.

Besides, who wouldn't want to be pulled over by a nice Mac officer, who carries pink handcuffs (thanks Baldman), and is friendly and chatty? :smirk:

Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:15 pm
by gotchya
devilwoman wrote:Its like saying why do the CBSA need LEO status or firearms? Can't a guard do the same job? Keep in mind, I'm not disrespecting CBSA folks in any way, I'm just pointing out there are reasons why things are in place.

Because CBSA is an actual law enforcement agency tasked with enforcing various Acts of Parliament, not supplementing a police agency.

Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:36 pm
by No 20 Year Medal
Right now, "smitty" is somewhere shaking his head in wonderment, amazed at the monster he has created.... :roll:

Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:44 pm
by Angerman
gotchya wrote:Because CBSA is an actual law enforcement agency tasked with enforcing various Acts of Parliament, not supplementing a police agency.


I don't think Devilwoman was casting aspersions on the long and proud history of the CBSA as a law enforcement agency.

Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:05 pm
by gotchya
Angerman wrote:
gotchya wrote:Because CBSA is an actual law enforcement agency tasked with enforcing various Acts of Parliament, not supplementing a police agency.


I don't think Devilwoman was casting aspersions on the long and proud history of the CBSA as a law enforcement agency.

Neither was I, I think her interpretation was sort of incorrect, in that CBSA and the agencies before were always enforcing laws (Customs, Immigration, or Aggie), they weren't always peace officers.

Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:19 pm
by devilwoman
Neither was I, I think her interpretation was sort of incorrect, in that CBSA and the agencies before were always enforcing laws (Customs, Immigration, or Aggie), they weren't always peace officers.


I wasn't. I have friends who work CBSA and I have nothing but respect for the people (well the good ones) and the work that they do. I was merely pointing out that just because you can have something lesser in place, doesn't mean its correct.

Because CBSA is an actual law enforcement agency tasked with enforcing various Acts of Parliament, not supplementing a police agency.


We are a "law enforcement agency" my friend. Been so since 1967. So 45 years for us enforcing the many acts and laws.

Again, this has gone way the hell off topic. Bottom line....

We can stop you, we have authority to stop you, you have to stop for us....pay the ticket.

Another bottom line.....

I like cookies. :angel:

Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:27 pm
by Respond Wayne
You know what I've noticed about this thread...

The OP made one and only one post, the OP recently visited the Forum (Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:55 pm) and decided not to comment any further, likely due to LOLing so hard from all the comments back and forth caused by him or her. There seems the be a few threads like this on here lately... Makes me wonder if there's some sort of experiment going on... Let's see what topic sets off the folks on Blue Line the most. :twitch:

Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:13 pm
by RemingtonSteel
gotchya wrote:
devilwoman wrote:Its like saying why do the CBSA need LEO status or firearms? Can't a guard do the same job? Keep in mind, I'm not disrespecting CBSA folks in any way, I'm just pointing out there are reasons why things are in place.

Because CBSA is an actual law enforcement agency tasked with enforcing various Acts of Parliament, not supplementing a police agency.


University of Toronto's Campus Police have been around since 1904 with status of some kind enforcing various acts of parliament - Federal, Provincial and Municipal. Pretty sure that would make them an actual law enforcement agency.

Re: University Special Constables-Traffic Enforcement

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:44 pm
by Bald Man
Let's put this none sense to bed. If anyone has any doubts as to whether or not Mac is a law enforcement agency (Gotcha included), take a walk through mac property and commit an offence in front of one of these so called "special constables". Report back to us on your findings. You just might end up sporting a new set of Pink peerless handcuffs.