What do you carry?

Discussion for firearms and less-lethal equipment.
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Bald Man
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Re: What do you carry?

Postby Bald Man » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:08 am

Grassynarrows wrote:Back in 1993-94 when the transitions were about to go on, the govt vetoed the 45 because of the association with dirty harry,hollywood violence etc.
the govt of the day didnt want the image of police being a bunch of gunslingers with 45s.
True story one of the guys that was on the transition team and a firearms instructor on the committee that was picking the pistol and the round told me that.
I would love to carry a 45 cal pistol, this is another example of govt making an asinine uninformed decision with no factual basis and basing the decision on image alone.



I had a feeling there was some retarded story to this. But didn't Dirty Harry carry a 44 magnum? :roll: But cops can carry a 40 cal. I think a 45 would have been an excellent choice. too bad really. Any police in Canada carry a 45 acp?

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Re: What do you carry?

Postby Grassynarrows » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:59 pm

not that i know of, but in the states a 45 is a common duty caliber.
Be professional and methodical. Take ownership of the situation. Look, listen and understand what is really being said and you will never have to walk away from an incident wondering if you missed something. Make every contact with the public count.

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Re: What do you carry?

Postby FedCO » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:09 pm

Grassynarrows wrote:not that i know of, but in the states a 45 is a common duty caliber.


There should be a push to get . 45 up here.

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Re: What do you carry?

Postby lndshark » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:40 pm

Dave Brown wrote:
Would you really want to work for an agency where you were not allowed to have the superior pistol just because someone else at another agency and with different priorities said so?


Or someone (FI/Armorer) at your OWN agency? Oh, sorry...

lndshark - still hoping to carry his Glock 21 on duty :banghead:

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Re: What do you carry?

Postby lndshark » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:44 pm

Grassynarrows wrote:not that i know of, but in the states a 45 is a common duty caliber.


It is. In fact, it is catching up to .40 S&W.

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Re: What do you carry?

Postby FedCO » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:59 am

lndshark wrote:
Grassynarrows wrote:not that i know of, but in the states a 45 is a common duty caliber.


It is. In fact, it is catching up to .40 S&W.


I've read that just changing to the 165 gr. 40SW. Is huge. Pretty much punches like a 45.

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Re: What do you carry?

Postby lndshark » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:00 pm

FedCO wrote:
lndshark wrote:
Grassynarrows wrote:not that i know of, but in the states a 45 is a common duty caliber.


It is. In fact, it is catching up to .40 S&W.


I've read that just changing to the 165 gr. 40SW. Is huge. Pretty much punches like a 45.


I still experience a lot more muzzle flip and felt recoil with my issued .40 S&W compared to my .45acp. My perception is that the .45 is more of a firm "push" to the hand. I can feel the .45 in my palm. With the .40, I feel it in my wrist. Could be that it's because the Glock (.45) is a larger, heavier frame/slide combo. The .40 I carry for work is more of a mid-size (think Glock 19/23 size) over the .45.

We recently switched to 165 gr. Winchester bonded from 180 gr. Speer Gold Dots. Why? 'Cause everyone else was, I suppose :crazy: So far, our only "experience" has been with dispatching deer in town.

We have a new boss and he's a Glock guy. He's somewhat interested in carrying his own Glock and I see a policy change coming which I'm trying to spearhead. I think our shooting scores would go up if we allowed personnel to carry 9, .40 or .45. The deputies in our county do the same. Basically, you get hired, buy a Glock in any of those three calibers, and the department will pay you back 1/2 the cost.

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Re: What do you carry?

Postby Bald Man » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:19 pm

We have a new boss and he's a Glock guy. He's somewhat interested in carrying his own Glock and I see a policy change coming which I'm trying to spearhead. I think our shooting scores would go up if we allowed personnel to carry 9, .40 or .45. The deputies in our county do the same. Basically, you get hired, buy a Glock in any of those three calibers, and the department will pay you back 1/2 the cost.
[/quote]

I've heard cops up here say that would be a better idea than just issuing a Glock 22 and expecting it to be perfect for everyone.

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Re: What do you carry?

Postby Grassynarrows » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:59 pm

I agree, I wish we had the option, I would carry a P226R sig in 9mm with an e2 grip.
Be professional and methodical. Take ownership of the situation. Look, listen and understand what is really being said and you will never have to walk away from an incident wondering if you missed something. Make every contact with the public count.

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Re: What do you carry?

Postby lndshark » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:22 pm

Bald Man wrote:
We have a new boss and he's a Glock guy. He's somewhat interested in carrying his own Glock and I see a policy change coming which I'm trying to spearhead. I think our shooting scores would go up if we allowed personnel to carry 9, .40 or .45. The deputies in our county do the same. Basically, you get hired, buy a Glock in any of those three calibers, and the department will pay you back 1/2 the cost.


I've heard cops up here say that would be a better idea than just issuing a Glock 22 and expecting it to be perfect for everyone.[/quote]

In a perfect world, there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all sidearm. We don't work/live in a perfect world. Police chiefs do though :dubious: When it comes to dollars and cents, one pistol, one calibers makes a logical choice even simpler.

I've posted here before on how several agencies here take sidearm selection for their officers seriously. Las Vegas Metro Police, for example, let's academy recruits shoot a variety of pistols from a huge list. You can carry what you are confident with (assuming you qualify). Literally, their list is huge, from 1911's to several H&K's, Glocks and Beretta. LAPD now issues a Glock 17 to academy recruits (most recently changed form a G22) but once off of probation you may carry a Glock in 9, .40 and .45. Want to carry a 1911? Take the course. Want to carry a Beretta or old-skool (sorry RCMP Members ;) ) S&W semi-auto? Take a transition course, qualify, and you're golden. The LASD is similar. Issue is an M&P 9 but you can qualify to carry an S&W, Beretta or SIG on the street (Glock is hated by the LASD FTU and forbidden).

For me, personally, I just can't get the scores I "like" with my issued pistol. Yes, I qualify, and easily, but not to my personal satisfaction. I'm also not happy with how my duty pistol has held-up or our armorers' attention to detail as far as maintenance is concerned. I shoot my G21 with a high amount of confidence, as well as a G17. I'd at least like the choice...

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Re: What do you carry?

Postby No 20 Year Medal » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:02 pm

Just to play devil's advocate here, what happens if (God forbid) you get into a major firefight and you need an extra mag. You nudge the guy pinned down beside you but he's got a different gun and calibre = his mags are useless to you and vice versa. In all probabilty the likelihood of such a scenario is remote, but.....
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Re: What do you carry?

Postby Bald Man » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:59 am

No 20 Year Medal wrote:Just to play devil's advocate here, what happens if (God forbid) you get into a major firefight and you need an extra mag. You nudge the guy pinned down beside you but he's got a different gun and calibre = his mags are useless to you and vice versa. In all probabilty the likelihood of such a scenario is remote, but.....


NYPD of 35,000 officers and most major city US police don't see an issue with mixed guns, so why should Canada? Maybe the US system is not perfect, but using a one size fits all might very well cause more problems than having a list of guns to choose from.

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Re: What do you carry?

Postby FedCO » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:53 am

Bald Man wrote:
No 20 Year Medal wrote:Just to play devil's advocate here, what happens if (God forbid) you get into a major firefight and you need an extra mag. You nudge the guy pinned down beside you but he's got a different gun and calibre = his mags are useless to you and vice versa. In all probabilty the likelihood of such a scenario is remote, but.....


NYPD of 35,000 officers and most major city US police don't see an issue with mixed guns, so why should Canada? Maybe the US system is not perfect, but using a one size fits all might very well cause more problems than having a list of guns to choose from.


I agree, also when its your own. You will take care of it, etc. I would hope. You would become the best with it.

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Re: What do you carry?

Postby Grassynarrows » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:47 am

the problem of mag compatbilty was visited and is a very valid problem but for us because we all have the c8 in our cruisers we all use the same mags for them they will work in all our c8s and we all carry 3 30 round mags for them its not as much an issue. Other places that don't have C8s then for sure its an issue.
Be professional and methodical. Take ownership of the situation. Look, listen and understand what is really being said and you will never have to walk away from an incident wondering if you missed something. Make every contact with the public count.

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Re: What do you carry?

Postby lndshark » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:37 pm

No 20 Year Medal wrote:Just to play devil's advocate here, what happens if (God forbid) you get into a major firefight and you need an extra mag. You nudge the guy pinned down beside you but he's got a different gun and calibre = his mags are useless to you and vice versa. In all probabilty the likelihood of such a scenario is remote, but.....


As others have mentioned, I don't see this as a critical issue. In the event of a firefight, the long gun comes out and in my case, I have a shit tonne of spare mags for my M4. If we're pinned down in a firefight and you dump your pistol loadout with no negative effect on the aggressor, you ain't getting my spares to deplete so the bad guy can shoot me when you've shot up all of our cartouches. How about we all carry the same secondary pistol as well, so you can shoot up my BUG ammo as well? :crazy:

This is the logic used by my management and it's stupid. We have carbines and in our locale, help isn't all that far away. It's not LAPD/NYPD, etc. close, but it isn't hours away like our rural Central Canada brothers.

It's funny how management and training stress shot placement and ammo conservation on the pistol range yet they think we're so reckless as to throw all of our bullets down range and skid a spare magazine or two across the width of our cars to continue the fight. LOL...


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