I'm looking to buy my first firearm, and I'm starting it off with the classic 12 gauge shotgun, always wanted one, and I'm planning on getting into waterfowl hunting (I already skeet shoot).
Heard great things about Benellis, and I want a pump, not into the semis.
Nova, Supernova, or the Supernova Tactical. 3 shotguns, all a bit different, with quite a different price tag.
Anyone with any experience with them have any advice/tips for which one I should get?
(I use the Remmy 870 at work)
VanSmack wrote:The 870 is usually quite a bit less expensive than a Benelli.
'For a reason.
Compared to a Benelli tge 870 is a club.
Buy once cry once.
I have an M2 with thousands of rounds through it. Hasn't failed ever.
Make counter accusations...
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There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. Then there are the rest of us that have to pee on the electric fence to find out for ourselves.
Remington 870 is a proven platform, but there are a few things to be done on every 870 made in the past 15 years. It is even possible to upgrade an 870 Express-line shotgun, such as the 870 Express, 870 Marine Magnum or 870 Tactical, to near the same standard of the 870 Police, but there are a few things to keep in mind:
#1 - Don't always trust the internet. There are far fewer differences between the 870 Express and 870 Police anymore. Aside from the bead-blasted finish on the Express line and parkerizing on the 870 Police, the Police has a stronger carrier dog spring and a machined extractor. That is about the only difference anymore. (They now both use polymer trigger groups and longer magazine springs.)
Machined extractors cost more to make because they are hand fit. Metal-injected molding (MIM) extractors on the Express line are cheaper. That is the only difference. There is no difference in reliability and I have never seen evidence of a MIM extractor fail.
Heavier carrier dog springs ONLY add to the heavier "feel" of the 870 Police. It contributes nothing to reliability; it is only to placate owners of the Police line that they have a somehow "heavier-duty" shotgun. (It is listed as a Remington Carrier Latch Spring, Mfr Part: F16966.)
If anyone wants to upgrade the extractor and carrier dog spring, go ahead if it makes you feel any better. It does nothing for reliability.
#2 - Every 870 made in the last 15 years must have the chamber polished if you want to shoot cheaper brands of low-brass shotgun shells. This includes any 870 Police made in the last 5 years.
As for Mossberg, they are a matter of choice. I find them rough and clunky, with a lot more moving parts. But that is my opinion. (I had about ten 870s at one time, but only one Mossberg 590A1, in the rare 14" barrel version.) I personally do not like the Mossberg safety.
Also, do not believe Mossberg advertising as "the shotgun that won military selection trials" or was "selected by the US Military." The only reason they won is that they met all the criteria of the tender and they were the only shotgun entered. Remington had no interest in a military contract at the time.
As for Benelli, this is what you have to do to get 100% reliability:
#1 - Open the box.
#2 - Shoot it.
And of course the Benelli M4 is still the world's best combat/tactical/police shotgun. (It is probably also the world's most expensive combat shotgun, but if you have the money, the Benelli M4 is considered the pinnacle of combat shotguns.)
Not in disagreement. A pump is great to have for a variety of reasons, like affordability and dependability (….and the novelty of racking ). But it is hard to beat the convenience of a semi when you're in a blind
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Benelli's are great shotguns. I used to own an M4 Entry (14" barrel) and it was an unbelievable shotgun. Fast cycling, ate almost everything I fed it, great manual of arms. Their pump guns are similar - exceptional quality, reliability and design. They are more limited on aftermarket upgrades but most of that stuff is worthless unless you place unusual value on how heavy your shotgun is, or you're into some of the competitive shooting sports. For a bird hunting gun, you can't use an extended magazine, the factory bead is usually the best sight, and the factory controls should work well enough.
Remington went from a unquestionable mark of quality to a mixed basket in the last 15 years. As Dave said above, they've run into some problems and made some changes and the 870 Police model is no longer the standout it once was. I'd add to his post from my own experience working at a distributor where we moved thousands of Remington shotguns and rifles each year: just over 10 years ago Remington went through a drastic reorganization and their quality control suffered immensely. We went from rare warranty returns to regular ones. Probably increased by a factor of at least 6x. The worst problems were with finish, brazing and machining. As Dave said, the chambers became a problem and we had extraction issues with quite a few guns as a result of improperly cut chambers. We also had a fair number come back with brazing/soldering that broke before the firearm was even handled, or had sights/beads installed on a cant. The 870 design is still a fairly good design, but the quality control issues over the past 10 years have seriously hurt their reputation for reliability.
Mossberg is generally a reliable make. The 590 series are fairly rugged. As Dave said above, they do have a slightly more complex mechanical design but I prefer it since it's more user serviceable than the 870. We had almost zero warranty claims on 590 series shotguns. 500's were less durable, so we'd occasionally have issues with them. Since you're looking at a bird gun though, that'll probably exclude the 590 guns. They wouldn't work very well for waterfowl compared to a more suitable gun. If you were looking for a "tactical" shotgun though, the 590's are great guns.
Another option to consider depending on budget and availability is a Browning BPS. I had one briefly and it was a beautiful shotgun. The smoothest pump action I've ever operated. They're less popular and more expensive than the big players (870 & 590) so there are fewer aftermarket parts for upgrades/repairs but like I said above, for a bird gun you probably won't be worried about that.
Now, if you did decide to change your mind and get a semi, I can't recommend anything more highly than the Remington VersaMax. I was skeptical when they first came out but based on what I saw in the shop and at 3-gun events in the years since then, I'm extremely impressed. It's the only shotgun I've seen that's more reliable with a wider variety of shells than the Benelli M4.
Hope this helps.
Not true. Physically impossible for the plastic to expand enough to require mortaring the stock on the ground to clear the failure to extract.alexmontreal wrote:870's have been jamming with low brass shells since the plastic expands and gets stuck within the barrel.
Several ways to solve this, including honing the chamber and avoiding certain brands of cheap shells. Sanding the inside of the barrel would do nothing. (The shell doesn't stick in the barrel; it sticks in the first half inch of chamber.)alexmontreal wrote:Two ways to solve this, 1, send it to a gun smith and make his sand the inside of the barrel so that it can't get caught
Not true. Only certain brands of cheap target loads are prone to sticking. One does not need to go to expensive high brass shells.alexmontreal wrote:buy ONLY high brass shells which will cost more especially for clay shooting or target practice.
alexmontreal wrote:Because of this I have bought the Winchester SXP. Same price as the 870, fastest pump on the market since it can eject the shell by itself if you choose and super reliable. I never ever ever had a problem with it and it was my first gun as well. My friend had the 870 and the same problem as I described above.
The Winchester SXP is a fine shotgun and is a fast action, but it is still made in Turkey. It is a price-point shotgun much like all the Turkish-made Weatherby, Husan, Scorpio, Utas etc. They provide good value for the budget-minded shooter. Not in the same class as a Benelli. (Or even an 870.)
alexmontreal wrote:I worked in a retail store selling guns so I know my fair share about guns! good luck!
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