AR Operating System

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Tony-Boogie
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AR Operating System

Postby Tony-Boogie » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:58 am

Many of you seem to be AR enthusiasts so I have a couple questions to pose.

1. Gas piston, or direct impingement? Personal experience rants or raves.

2. Have any of you tried converting from DI to gas piston?
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Bitterman
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Re: AR Operating System

Postby Bitterman » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:30 pm

I'm an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" guy...

DI is just fine.

IMHO the piston system is a solution to a non existent problem... Or at least a problem 99.999% of us don't have.
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Re: AR Operating System

Postby Striker » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:20 pm

The one big bonus to a gas system is..it's a heck of a lot easier to clean the bolt. :mrgreen:
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Re: AR Operating System

Postby Tony-Boogie » Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:07 pm

A more clean(cleaner?) chamber is def a perk of piston. I just can't seem to find anything bad about piston. Only complaint is slight increase in recoil.
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Dave Brown
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Re: AR Operating System

Postby Dave Brown » Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:09 pm

Pistons were trendy a few years ago. But few of the big tier-one manufacturers bought into it, and most people today stick with DI. While you won't read too much that is BAD about pistons, there is just not too much GOOD about them either.

They are, as others have said, a solution to a non-existant problem.

It's not just the recoil that's different, it is the feel of the recoil that some don't like. Plus, parts are no longer interchangeable, as every piston manufacturer thinks differently. If not designed properly, they can also lead to increased wear through carrier tilt.

Quite frankly, I saw the whole piston thing as a way that many mid-grade manufacturers were using to market their products. Not too many top-end manufacturers bought into it as they considered the DI design was good as is, and if shooters didn't feel like cleaning their bolts and chambers for a few extra seconds after shooting, they probably shouldn't be owning a firearm.

The people who actually are in situations where the rifle can go through tens of thousands of rounds in between cleanings still overwhelmingly stick with the DI design. It seems to work for them.

The advice from many with far more experience than me is to pick up a quality DI, run it wet, don't be too anal about cleaning every speck of carbon, shoot it for a few years and then see if there is something about it you want changed.

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Re: AR Operating System

Postby Striker » Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:17 pm

The FN I was issued ran great..I'm a fan of piston style actions simply because it keeps the bolt, chamber area much cleaner then DI..
Having said that..I don't own a piston upper on my ar's..yet. :mrgreen:
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Re: AR Operating System

Postby Tony-Boogie » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:08 pm

Striker wrote:The FN I was issued
FN.... wow. Just dated yourself with that one haha

I've never had a problem with DI in any of the theatres I've been in. Ranging from northern Canada to deserts its always worked beautifully. Only experience with piston is SKS and AK families and they are their own standard of excellence.
So far the consensus is gas. Anyone to speak differently?
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Re: AR Operating System

Postby A.T.R. » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:29 pm

Striker fought in the Falklands.
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Re: AR Operating System

Postby Tony-Boogie » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:37 pm

Likely means he was around for the first Age of Darkness, or got in on the FRP. I have a feeling Mr Beautiful is gearing us up for Age of Darkness II.
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Re: AR Operating System

Postby Striker » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:04 pm

A.T.R. wrote:Striker fought in the Falklands.
rofl. not quite..had my ticket purchased for Gulf War 1 though..game was cancelled before I got there.
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Re: AR Operating System

Postby HiPowered » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:19 pm

DI is perfectly fine. Piston guns were a fad that flourished when engineers made a reasonable attempt to improve the AR action, and marketing noticed that people will buy anything that's "different enough". I'd consider it a failed experiment. The marginal increase in cyclical reliability isn't worth the cost, weight, recoil and long-term reliability (as Dave Brown mentioned - there are issues with geometry that result in carrier tilt or other problems which can result in eventual failure of the firearm). As Dave also said, getting parts can be a pain in the ass, as you won't have as many interchangeable parts as other AR owners, and the most reliable piston operated AR's use the least interchangeable parts since they've needed to work around the geometry problem.

If you aren't pounding out tens of thousands of rounds a year you won't really notice the difference anyways. I'd stick with a DI rifle and not worry about it. Piston AR's are another example of the triumph of marketing over engineering.

And as a pedantic note, calling it a "gas" gun doesn't actually describe a piston operated gun specifically. Direct impingement and piston operated rifles both operate using the gas that's tapped from the barrel. They just use it differently.

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Re: AR Operating System

Postby Bitterman » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:26 pm

Striker wrote:The one big bonus to a gas system is..it's a heck of a lot easier to clean the bolt. :mrgreen:



How easy do you need it to be...LOL
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Re: AR Operating System

Postby Striker » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:14 am

Bitterman wrote:
Striker wrote:The one big bonus to a gas system is..it's a heck of a lot easier to clean the bolt. :mrgreen:



How easy do you need it to be...LOL
Had you asked me that about 25 years ago when I was getting reamed by a Sgt for "cooties" in my rifle... :mrgreen:
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Bitterman
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Re: AR Operating System

Postby Bitterman » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:39 am

Striker wrote: Had you asked me that about 25 years ago when I was getting reamed by a Sgt for "cooties" in my rifle... :mrgreen:


Well... They often see shit that isn't there. At least that's how I remember inspection.

Really though, DI or piston... They both get "dirty" if you shoot 'em.
It's a matter of how dirty you can stand it.

I think most guys over clean their guns anyway... Plus I'm lazy.
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Striker
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Re: AR Operating System

Postby Striker » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:18 pm

Bitterman wrote:
Striker wrote: Had you asked me that about 25 years ago when I was getting reamed by a Sgt for "cooties" in my rifle... :mrgreen:


Well... They often see shit that isn't there. At least that's how I remember inspection.

Really though, DI or piston... They both get "dirty" if you shoot 'em.
It's a matter of how dirty you can stand it.

I think most guys over clean their guns anyway... Plus I'm lazy.
I will never be accused of over cleaning my guns. If they get wet I will clean them right away. I don't clean them every time I go to the range either.
I've never had a failure due to a cruddy firearm..
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