Smith and Wesson IOP style program?

Discussion for firearms and less-lethal equipment.

Moderators: Respond Wayne, Pete Broccolo, opp2, CourtOfficer, Dave Brown

User avatar
FedCO
Poobah Overlord
Posts: 2860
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: Smith and Wesson IOP style program?

Postby FedCO » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:08 pm

Homer wrote:
Dave Brown wrote:There is a reason why CBSA issues a brand-new handgun to every armed officer every three years, when every other agency in North America issues a gun designed to last the career of the officer.
It is sad that it's considered cheaper to buy a new gun that (barely) meets the minimum standard every three years than to get one that does the job well for a couple decades.
Because cbsa was forced into this firearms thing. Cbsa doesn't care and doesn't want you to use it. On paper they can say they meet health and safety. I'd like to see cbsa take it seriously and properly equip you guys.

dira necessitas
Poobah Overlord
Posts: 2835
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: Smith and Wesson IOP style program?

Postby dira necessitas » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:15 pm

Dave Brown wrote:
There is a reason why CBSA issues a brand-new handgun to every armed officer every three years, when every other agency in North America issues a gun designed to last the career of the officer.
That sounds like mismanagement of tax dollars. People should be fired over decisions like that.
I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but let's take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself.

User avatar
Casey Jones
Poobah Overlord
Posts: 4243
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:05 am

Re: Smith and Wesson IOP style program?

Postby Casey Jones » Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:18 pm

dira necessitas wrote:
Dave Brown wrote:
There is a reason why CBSA issues a brand-new handgun to every armed officer every three years, when every other agency in North America issues a gun designed to last the career of the officer.
That sounds like mismanagement of tax dollars. People should be fired over decisions like that.
That's insane. If my agency replaced my firearm every three years and during those three years I saw some of the mentioned issues with it, I'd probably be more apt to throw it at the subject than waste the time trying to shoot it and finding out it doesn't work.

Grassynarrows
Super-Ultra-Mega Poobah
Posts: 5372
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:16 pm
Location: Lake of the Woods area

Re: Smith and Wesson IOP style program?

Postby Grassynarrows » Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:24 pm

CBSA management must stop and realize that someone's life can depend on that firearm
Be professional and methodical. Take ownership of the situation. Look, listen and understand what is really being said and you will never have to walk away from an incident wondering if you missed something. Make every contact with the public count.

User avatar
Longarm9
King Poobah
Posts: 2041
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:02 pm

Re: Smith and Wesson IOP style program?

Postby Longarm9 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:42 am

Dave Brown wrote:
Longarm9 wrote: when you have some desk bound beaurocratic weenie in Ottawa deciding what gun a frontline officer should carry...
That's not quite how it happened. Those desk-bound weenies listened to advice from another agency that was based on political payback for past mistakes, plus an intense desire to select a make that the agency who recommended the choice would never be called upon to maintain or repair.

Quality of the firearm was never considered.

When Blue Line appeared before the standing committee on national security in Ottawa before the arming initiative was approved, we had a complete breakdown of all the makes used in Canada, plus a breakdown in the trends as to who was gaining market share (Glock, Sig) and who was losing market share. (Beretta.) We also had the reasons why five agencies had dropped Beretta for another make in between our two major cross-Canada surveys. (Quality-control, and inability to supply spare parts.)

There is a reason why CBSA issues a brand-new handgun to every armed officer every three years, when every other agency in North America issues a gun designed to last the career of the officer.
I hear what you're saying, and it's not hard to guess what the "other agency" you're referring to is, however I still don't absolve the CBSA muckity mucks of their responsibility in the matter. If the department was run by actual law enforcement officers, perhaps they might have seen through the poor advice they received. Perhaps not. Either way, they had a responsibility to consider the quality and the importance of the firearm, and they did not make the best choice they could have.

All in all, it's not absolute useless garbage, but there definitely were far better options available. The S&W M&P 9mm being high on the list, IMHO.
"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing." -John Stuart Mill

User avatar
Dave Brown
Site Admin
Posts: 3846
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Winnipeg, MB

Re: Smith and Wesson IOP style program?

Postby Dave Brown » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:38 am

Let's not forget that every armed officer in Canada is equipped with a firearm that will go bang when it needs to. We debate fine points of quality and technical issues, but one still needs to trust their gear and - most important - trust their instructors.

In a real-life tactical situation, there are only two factors that will DIRECTLY contribute to your survival as an armed officer: repetition of basic skills such that they become automatic reactions, and the ability to find and use cover.

User avatar
Longarm9
King Poobah
Posts: 2041
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:02 pm

Re: Smith and Wesson IOP style program?

Postby Longarm9 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:24 am

Dave Brown wrote:Let's not forget that every armed officer in Canada is equipped with a firearm that will go bang when it needs to. We debate fine points of quality and technical issues, but one still needs to trust their gear and - most important - trust their instructors.

In a real-life tactical situation, there are only two factors that will DIRECTLY contribute to your survival as an armed officer: repetition of basic skills such that they become automatic reactions, and the ability to find and use cover.
True enough. I do think the absurdly heavy trigger is a real disadvantage in a gun fight, but I hope that it is not so significant that it costs someone their life. Personally I feel I've defeated it to the point that it won't be a significant factor, but it isn't worth the risk in my opinion when so many better options are available.
"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing." -John Stuart Mill


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest