CBSA Firearms

Discussion for firearms and less-lethal equipment.
Flagger409
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CBSA Firearms

Postby Flagger409 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:36 pm

What sidearm are the CBSA folks assigned? :pistols:

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Re: CBSA Firearms

Postby Respond Wayne » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:22 pm

This is information that should not be discussed... unless it already has been >>> SOMEWHERE ELSE <<< :smirk:
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Re: CBSA Firearms

Postby A.T.R. » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:33 pm

I dont think they carry when doing airport security.
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Re: CBSA Firearms

Postby Punisher-One » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:09 am

A.T.R. wrote:I dont think they carry when doing airport security.


LOL! I love it.

I am going to get my gun in the new year.....when I return to my work location I get to lock it up at an office 25 minutes away and never see it again for my career except for once a year for practice shoots and requal! YAY! :banghead:

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Re: CBSA Firearms

Postby A.T.R. » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:06 pm

If I want on with CBSA would it help if I bought the same one and practiced?
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Re: CBSA Firearms

Postby GoodWitness » Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:30 pm

A.T.R. wrote:If I want on with CBSA would it help if I bought the same one and practiced?

Definitely. Buy one and lock it up someplace. Once a year take it out and shoot at stuff.

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Re: CBSA Firearms

Postby Punisher-One » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:12 pm

A.T.R. wrote:If I want on with CBSA would it help if I bought the same one and practiced?


Yes absolutely. You can practice locking it up in a lock box and then removing it from the lock box.

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Re: CBSA Firearms

Postby Bitterman » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:33 pm

'How come nobody asks what kind of baton or rubber gloves the CBSA uses...?

I noticed when coming back across the border last week that the CBSA guy was wearing black Nitrile gloves... Way more "tactical" than the blue ones we use in corrections...
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Re: CBSA Firearms

Postby GoodWitness » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:28 pm

Bitterman wrote:'How come nobody asks what kind of baton or rubber gloves the CBSA uses...?

I noticed when coming back across the border last week that the CBSA guy was wearing black Nitrile gloves... Way more "tactical" than the blue ones we use in corrections...

Definitely harder to see "stuff" on, that's for sure.
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Re: CBSA Firearms

Postby Bitterman » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:53 pm

GoodWitness wrote:
Bitterman wrote:'How come nobody asks what kind of baton or rubber gloves the CBSA uses...?

I noticed when coming back across the border last week that the CBSA guy was wearing black Nitrile gloves... Way more "tactical" than the blue ones we use in corrections...

Definitely harder to see "stuff" on, that's for sure.
Check out these bad boys.
Reminds me of those "day of the week" panties that I remember my GF wearing in high school. Like a sell-by date for underwear, so to speak.

Image




Sweet!
I wonder... 'How are they for pulling over your head and inflating for the mohawk rooster comb effect?
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Re: CBSA Firearms

Postby HiPowered » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:35 pm

Dave Brown wrote:Every agency properly trains their members on said pistol.

Are you going to 'pick' the agency you want to apply to based on the pistol they issue? If so, you have been reading too much on the internet. There are differences but they are all reasonable quality guns from top-name manufacturers. Again, they all go bang when you need them.

Are you wanting to buy your own pistol that matches the one you are applying for so you can 'practice' for your future profession? That is not just creepy, it is seriously wrong. You will just end up practicing bad habits and could make you seem like a smart ass that requires a lot of "untraining" before they can start training ... meaning to a smart recruiter, you will be a liability before you have even started.

Are you a member of CBSA and looking to practice on your own before you are issued a sidearm? Well, first of all, you should already know the sidearm they will be issuing. Secondly, let them train you FIRST. Thirdly, trigger time is trigger time; you don't need to get the same pistol. Get one you like to shoot.


Dave, I have some questions on what you've posted here. I know you say that every agency properly trains their members on their pistol, but I have to ask - do you mean they're properly trained on the basics of marksmanship, or do you include more advanced parts of firearms training like movement, use of cover, and shooting from common scenarios (inside a vehicle, behind a desk, from a chair, from the ground, etc)?

I'm also curious about your position on using a different personal firearm for practise (and fun) at home. Do you have concerns about building contrary muscle memory on controls? I wouldn't want to spend most of my time practising with a 1911 and end up stroking a non-existent safety during my draw with my Glock. Fortunately with DAO service pistols it's less of an issue for duty than an DA or SAO, but I'd still rather train with a pistol that's configured in the same way as my duty pistol.

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Re: CBSA Firearms

Postby Homer » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:43 pm

HiPowered wrote:Dave, I have some questions on what you've posted here. I know you say that every agency properly trains their members on their pistol, but I have to ask - do you mean they're properly trained on the basics of marksmanship, or do you include more advanced parts of firearms training like movement, use of cover, and shooting from common scenarios (inside a vehicle, behind a desk, from a chair, from the ground, etc)?

Admittedly I'm not Dave (and have less than 1% of his experience) - but as I understand it, every armed agency, force or corporation will train their staff in the way they want firearms used. Even among police forces in one province the training varies based on local requirements. You will not get advanced marksmanship, but you will get practical applied use of force training. You can argue whether everyone gets 'enough' training, but you MUST follow the procedures used by your employer. As Dave and others have indicated, focus on getting hired then follow the training you receive.

HiPowered wrote:I'm also curious about your position on using a different personal firearm for practise (and fun) at home. Do you have concerns about building contrary muscle memory on controls? I wouldn't want to spend most of my time practising with a 1911 and end up stroking a non-existent safety during my draw with my Glock. Fortunately with DAO service pistols it's less of an issue for duty than an DA or SAO, but I'd still rather train with a pistol that's configured in the same way as my duty pistol.

See above. Once you are trained by your employer, trigger time is trigger time. Practice what you have been taught enough and the gun you are holding becomes almost irrelevant. If you are worried about DA, DAO and SA differences, only practice the draw and present with your duty firearm or something close. Once the manual safety is off (if one exists), you just pull the trigger and reload as required. Most modern handguns have the mag release in the same location, so there is not much to worry about there.

If, after getting hired, you decide you like your duty firearm then you buy your own for playing at the range.
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Re: CBSA Firearms

Postby Dave Brown » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:47 am

Yes, the various agencies will train recruits on the skills they feel they will need.

I am not going to make value judgments about the quality of the training, because I have been in this business a long time, and there have been HUGE strides forward in pistol training in the past 15 years. The worst training one could receive today is still a thousand times better than the best that one could get 20 years ago.

Without going into too much detail, marksmanship is still an important component of training. Even though the standard is more towards "combat accuracy" and stopping the threat in the most efficient and effective way possible in order to protect the safety of the officer, the public and even perhaps the assailant, but marksmanship is still needed. This is why officers may rarely shoot as far as 20 meters, but most qualification tests still require accuracy at that range.

In fact, a properly designed course-of-fire should have enough points that need to be earned at the 15 and 20 meter line that an officer can fail if they don't have basic marksmanship skills. At 3 and 7, one can often fake it; at 20, you can't.

As for matching firearms, if one chooses to buy their own pistol and using it for practice and competition, they should buy one they like to shoot, not one that necessarily matches what their agency issues. Trigger time truly IS trigger time. If one loves 1911s and likes the feel of it in their hand and the look of it in their vault ... go for it. If one is issued a Glock or Sig, and they like it, then it makes sense to own a top quality pistol like a Glock or Sig. (If the agency issues .40, I would always suggest 9mm instead; easier on the gun; cheaper to shoot.)

If an agency issues a Beretta, then it makes sense to get a Glock or another quality make.

If you do enough shooting, and practice the skills on your issue firearm exactly as you are taught by your agency trainers, you will - believe it or not - not try to sweep off a 1911 safety when handling a Glock.

Here's a secret tip: the best practice one can ever do is LOTS of dry-fire practice on the range. Get a feel for EXACTLY where the sights were aligned with each other at the moment the hammer falls. Then it doesn't matter if it is 5 pounds, 10 pounds or 15 pounds on the pull; it is the instant the hammer falls that is important.

One caveat. If one shoots a very high thumb position on a 1911, where the thumb is resting on top of the safety, you will ride the slide stop on a Glock. If you find your duty sidearm is not locking back on an empty mag, check your mag spring first, and your thumb position second.

And, please ... if you ride the safety on a 1911, do not get one of those goofy mudflap thumb guards. They are about as useless as heat shields and bayonet lugs on an 870.

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Re: CBSA Firearms

Postby HiPowered » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:55 pm

Dave Brown wrote:Yes, the various agencies will train recruits on the skills they feel they will need.

I am not going to make value judgments about the quality of the training, because I have been in this business a long time, and there have been HUGE strides forward in pistol training in the past 15 years. The worst training one could receive today is still a thousand times better than the best that one could get 20 years ago.

Without going into too much detail, marksmanship is still an important component of training. Even though the standard is more towards "combat accuracy" and stopping the threat in the most efficient and effective way possible in order to protect the safety of the officer, the public and even perhaps the assailant, but marksmanship is still needed. This is why officers may rarely shoot as far as 20 meters, but most qualification tests still require accuracy at that range.

In fact, a properly designed course-of-fire should have enough points that need to be earned at the 15 and 20 meter line that an officer can fail if they don't have basic marksmanship skills. At 3 and 7, one can often fake it; at 20, you can't.

As for matching firearms, if one chooses to buy their own pistol and using it for practice and competition, they should buy one they like to shoot, not one that necessarily matches what their agency issues. Trigger time truly IS trigger time. If one loves 1911s and likes the feel of it in their hand and the look of it in their vault ... go for it. If one is issued a Glock or Sig, and they like it, then it makes sense to own a top quality pistol like a Glock or Sig. (If the agency issues .40, I would always suggest 9mm instead; easier on the gun; cheaper to shoot.)

If an agency issues a Beretta, then it makes sense to get a Glock or another quality make.

If you do enough shooting, and practice the skills on your issue firearm exactly as you are taught by your agency trainers, you will - believe it or not - not try to sweep off a 1911 safety when handling a Glock.

Here's a secret tip: the best practice one can ever do is LOTS of dry-fire practice on the range. Get a feel for EXACTLY where the sights were aligned with each other at the moment the hammer falls. Then it doesn't matter if it is 5 pounds, 10 pounds or 15 pounds on the pull; it is the instant the hammer falls that is important.

One caveat. If one shoots a very high thumb position on a 1911, where the thumb is resting on top of the safety, you will ride the slide stop on a Glock. If you find your duty sidearm is not locking back on an empty mag, check your mag spring first, and your thumb position second.

And, please ... if you ride the safety on a 1911, do not get one of those goofy mudflap thumb guards. They are about as useless as heat shields and bayonet lugs on an 870.


Thanks for the reply, Dave. It occurred to me after reading your post that while I intended to start a conversation on firearms training, the public part of the forum probably wasn't the place to do it. I agree that we're miles ahead of where we were decades ago, but I was hoping to discuss a bit more on where we are and where we're going. Maybe we should take this into the LEO subforum for safety's sake?


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