Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

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Ironside
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Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby Ironside » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:16 pm

So I've been practicing lately with my PX4 Storm 9mm (personal firearm, not Agency) but it's the identical model "D" as my work gun.

I just can't seem to get my groupings as tight as i'd like at 25m. I thought for sure it must be me but I've always been a pretty good shot. I'll fire at your typical range target (paper is about 8 1/2" x 11") and I'm struggling to even land all 5 rounds on the paper. I'll usually hit about 3 or 4 but they're all over the place.

My last trip to the range, I went with my father-in-law and he brought his Glock Model 22 Gen 4 .40 cal that he just got. Using his pistol with a much lighter trigger pull I was able to put all 5 rounds into the target at 25 metres in a grouping about the size of the palm of my hand.

What gives!!!?

The shorter trigger pull of his gun is nice because you can get your sight picture and breathing down and a gentle squeeze fires off a round almost immediately... The PX4 trigger is like waiting for the Yoddly guy on the Price Is Right to scale the mountain before it fires!!!

How should I work on my trigger pull? Is it best to squeeze slowly and try my best to maintain sight picture even though that tires out your finger quicker? Should I work on being able to squeeze the trigger fast but smooth?

Any tips?
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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby Bald Man » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:23 pm

Well I think you've just proven to yourself it's not you, it's the Beretta. :D I've never fired this model but I would think proper trigger staging is the issue for slow accurate shots at longer distances. I think trigger staging is even more important with long heavy trigger pulls.

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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby SupahDuck » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:32 pm

What size grip do you have? What size hand?

I was all over the place with our H&K P2000 v5 (heavy heavy trigger pull, DAO, over 8lbs), medium grip, and I have big hands.

My problem was that I was hooking the trigger in the first joint, which caused all sorts of muzzle movement during the trigger pull. One of our marksman pistol guys suggested that I use the pad of my trigger finger instead, and I've found that I'm able to get much cleaner trigger pulls with that technique, and my groupings are better.

Not sure if this will help. Me no firearms instructor, so don't listen to me. :smirk:
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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby Ironside » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:20 am

Haha... I definitely don't want to sell as i'm determined to get better with THIS pistol. Shooting with the Glock has shown me that my basic fundamentals are sound on a trigger that DOESN'T have, what, a 9lbs trigger like the PX4?

I am using the large backstrap with hogue grip, I have pretty large hands. I don't use the joint of my index finger, I always use the padded area of my finger tip.

The one thing I noticed tonight (went shooting again) was that sometimes when I look down my sights the front post APPEARS to lean EVER so slightly to the left and i'm struggling to get it level... not sure what's going on there.

All my shots at 20m were going left tonight. I even shot more to the right and they landed in the middle of the target, just gotta figure out what i'm doing wrong here.

Closer range, no problem... my rounds are going right where I want them to go (unless I pull a shot due to brain-farting/rushing)
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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby portcullisguy » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:57 am

Two problems exist here:

1. We carry a firearm that was not designed for that type of precision at 25m.

2. We shoot a course if fire that unnecessarily has a 25m stage. Indent know about you but I can't picture a scenario where I can articulate AIM is met a 25m. Not to say it couldn't happen, but in my routine contacts wih people they are normally in double arms reach - the contact zone.
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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby SupahDuck » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:43 am

Aaah yes, the good ol' "Grip O' Death" !

That caused me no end of problems when we were using the .38 peashooters.

Our H&K's are a bit more forgiving in that regard, but still, at 25m, every little thing contributes to tighter groups.

:D

The way that our instructors explained the 25m distance being included in our qualifications, is that the fundamentals of shooting become critical at that distance: grip, trigger pull, sight picture, etc. One really has to be proficient at them in order to get a passable group at that distance.

Anyone can hit black on the target from 3 and 7 m, without even thinking about it. The last thing we need though, is a whole bunch of officers running around with sloppy fundamentals and the false confidence that they can hit things accurately at longer distances.

While I'm not going to be taking shots at a moving target in a dynamic situation on the street at 25m, at least I'll have a bit more confidence that my fundamentals are sound, and that I can take an accurate shot at *any* distance if needed.

Understanding the limitations of the gun, and MY limitations as well, breeds a healthier respect for it as a tool. Just sayin'. :D
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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby Ironside » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:18 pm

I had a friend take a video of me shooting last night and I think I am gripping too tightly with my right hand. Also, between each shot I seem to have a tendency to adjust my grip for some reason... I wonder if this screws me up a bit too?

Maybe another trip to the range is in order to implement some of these suggestions. :ponder:
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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby portcullisguy » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:06 pm

Video is a great idea and a great diagnostic tool, I'm sure Dave would agree.
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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby Homer » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:40 pm

And, of course, another trip to the range is *always* a good idea. :pistols:
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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby Grassynarrows » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:34 pm

if you are regripping there is a minor flaw with your grip. Experiment with your grip a bit.
Get some dummy rounds and dryfire a lot. make small targets to simulate 25 m targets and as mentioned before the PX4 isnt designed for that type of precision at that distance. remember to squeeze the pistol with your support hand.
Google target pistol talk and the chart will be able to diagnose why your rounds are hitting where they are hitting.
Also shoot at 35 metres plus and get your shots in there and when you shoot at 25 it will seem like a chip shot.
I shoot PPC matches where we shoot to 50 metres during a course of fire and i found that helps with accuracy a lot.
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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby DawnPatrol » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:47 pm

I realize it is an old post, hopefully you have everything worked out by now!
Practice dry-firing, have a friend watch your front sight, if it dips when the pistol goes click you are snapping the trigger.
When the front sight doesn't move when the pistol goes click then you won't be dropping rounds. (Unless there are other issues).

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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby Burick » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:19 pm

My PX4 shoots like a laser... proned out I can reliably put my shots into the CX at 25.

I think it just comes down to practice. If you aren't armed yet and insist on trying to teach yourself prior to DFC I would strongly encourage you to receive at least some informal instruction so that you aren't creating bad habits.

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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby MedTech » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:32 pm

Burick wrote: proned out I can reliably put my shots into the CX at 25.


No joke... we are neither targets or a safe direction.
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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby smarshall » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:21 pm

i think he meant centre x buds

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Re: Need help! 20/25m trigger pull.

Postby Burick » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:27 pm

MedTech wrote:
Burick wrote: proned out I can reliably put my shots into the CX at 25.


No joke... we are neither targets or a safe direction.

Haha... what smarshall said.


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