CBSA and sidearms

Discussion for firearms and less-lethal equipment.
Drache
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CBSA and sidearms

Postby Drache » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:48 am

Ok Im sorry is this is the wrong forum to post this in but I want to get the views of people here.

After the big thing happening on Cornwall Island and the CBSA being forced to abandon their "posts" under threat of being stormed if they finally got their sidearms, I'm currently in a debate with someone who believes that the CBSA have no right to be armed and should instead just call the closest police station when something happens. I won't even start or get into his other views of the CBSA and what they should and shouldn't do.... :roll:

Now I think I know what most people are going to say but please share you views on this subject.

Do you support the CBSA being "armed" and why?

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gotchya
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Re: CBSA and sidearms

Postby gotchya » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:22 am

Yes, for various reasons, mainly officer safety. Simply calling the local police service isn't going to do anything for the officer in that instant.
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Re: CBSA and sidearms

Postby SierraSeven » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:57 am

Anyone interdicting any sort of firearms, weapons, or narcotics should be armed in my view. Doing so without them has been, and still is, illogical and unsafe. The events at Cornwall that are transpiring as we speak, and those that have occured in the past, have done nothing but reinforce the fact that the CBSA should be armed.
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Re: CBSA and sidearms

Postby Borderwatchman » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:44 am

I'm curious about hearing this person's philosophy and beliefs about the CBSA. Come on, do tell!!!!!

As has been posted about officer safety, I concurr. It is also another big step to respectability and an evolving image and mandate into true law enforcement.

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Re: CBSA and sidearms

Postby gotchya » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:39 am

Furthermore not to mention the fact that the BSOs' counterparts to the south (at US Border Patrol) also have firearms, and the CBSA tend to deal with the same "clients".
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Re: CBSA and sidearms

Postby TacticsPT » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:58 am

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :alright: :alright:
IrishCanadian wrote:Start punching this person in the face and tell them to call police to stop you while you punch them out.

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Re: CBSA and sidearms

Postby bigbadjoe108 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:25 am

IrishCanadian wrote:Start punching this person in the face and tell them to call police to stop you while you punch them out.

Alternatively, you can pull out a gun and ask them if they think they can call the police and have the police respond before the gun goes boom and they die.

Anything in this vein will do.

Then, stop talking to this person, because they are too dumb to live.



Exactly what I would have said....
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Re: CBSA and sidearms

Postby ryan.p » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:38 am

I would think it is common sense for the "first" line of defense into this country to be armed. Before I joined this forum, I knew very little about the CBSA but had assumed they were at least armed.

These BSO's are being TRAINED to carry and use the firearm, so why is it such a big issue? I swear some people in the public think that FEDEX just drops off a shipment of guns to the PoE and everyone just reaches in and grabs their sidearm like little kids at Halloween.
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Re: CBSA and sidearms

Postby Herky » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:41 am

Commenting on the police part only....yes call the police, but what happens if you call the police and they can't respond, or if I press my panic button, help is 2 hours away or maybe 1 hours and 30 minutes away if the police drive full speed and not hit a deer. People who live in cities can't understand that some places, emergency services take more than 10 minutes response time or maybe can't respond all together. That and Border Services Officers are peace officers, your friend is an ignorant fool.

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Re: CBSA and sidearms

Postby Drache » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:03 pm

First off let me say this guy is NOT my friend! :roll:

Well it started off in a simple news article thread about what was happening. For those that don't know the "Mohawk Warriors" (a radical group and even known as a criminal organization who smuggle and run guns) threatened to STORM the CBSA station on Cornwall Island and remove the CBSA officers "with force in necessary" if the Officers there started carrying their sidearms (supposedly they are the last in Canada to receive them). The Officers were told to leave their posts around midnight. (If I got something wrong then please correct me)

Anyways this fight started when this guy started arguing that the Mohawk Warriors should be allowed to do whatever they want even if they break Canadian Laws only because of their race and because they live on the reserve. (what are the rules/laws governing reserves and Canadian Law?)

Here are some of the things he's said:

Also they threatend to storm a CBSA outpost, not storm and scalp its occupiers, where is the threat of violence

Are you really suprised these guys are concerned about CBSA officers being armed in their backyard? Especially given some of the scandals that have rocked CBSA training as of late.

The fact that the border crossing is within first nations territory places this facility under the influence of the first nations counsel there. Imposing the presence of armed federal enforcers in their nation by the federal government is a violation of their Sovereignty as establised by federal law.

Also I don't see how adding guns to the Canadian side of an armed border would deter any criminal activity?

Close the post, and replace it with a UAV at an uncontrolled crossing.

The CBSA actually isn't geared exclusivly twoards anti smuggling operations, they are geared like most border agents of most countries, to enforce tax and tarrif laws.

Soft on Criminals? Since when is Canada tough on Criminals?

THey had no problem with the border post, just with those guards being ARMED. Why not poll the locals first? See what the response would be? Look at offered alternatives, such as manning the station/training the local reserve coppers to act as border guards? Those folks are known and trusted by the community, problem sovled.

even if they occupied the outpost it would not be much different from many of the peacful protests that have taken place in toronto over the years.

In any case the CBSA would be the only armed non reserve gov't agents in the area. They are viewed as outsiders who unlike the local police do not have a firm grasp of the goings on of the reserve, nor the culture that lives there. They essentially appear as armed aliens and for the most part don't speak the language. There is a huge issue of alienation and trust at play here, and the simple fact is this all could have been avoided with 3 high school students with clip boards.

On the reserve they are supposed to be goverened by their own laws, their own customs (sentencing circles and the like). So an injection of armed agents from what they consider a foreign power isn't exactly the same as slapping a few more metro cops on the streets, or arming a CBSA station in Niagra.

You can't enforce Canadian law on a native reservation. If you are wanted for a crime, the RCMP can not enter the reserve to arrest you.

Hells Angels are just a motorcycle club, they mean no one any harm. Completely a media fabrication and distortion of the truth.

What is so wrong with having the reserve cops man the border station exactly? since they are already LEOs just give them the ruddy CBSA taxation training and call it a day.

Honestly I really don't give two shits about if they smuggle. The bottom line here is that on the reservation they are the authority, and they do not like what is being done on their land, nor do they trust the government that is supposed to serve them (And it would extend to the branch I work for too buds).

The Reserve cops are ARMED. The concern lies in essentially alien officers who have no real understanding of the community that they serve being armed. Do you seriously beleive that 8 armed border guards are somehow going to stop smuggling that 8 better armed US guards can? You will also notice they don't have a problem with the armed YANK guards. This tells me the problem they have lies with CBSA agents being armed, and the perception of arming an alien police force from a government that has previously shot/tear gassed you. Do you really find it so hard to beleive?

Seriously explain to me if thats the case why they dont care about the reserve cops being armed, or the US guards being armed?

It has already been stated that Canadian law is not the same law that applies on the reserve, you fall under the law of the band. This isn't some invention of mine, it is how it was set up by the gov't of old.

Yes the CBSA "enforce the law", but their primary concern at crossings is that who they are letting in is a citizen, and those who are coming in have paid the appropriate taxes on the goods they bring across. They are not round-house kicking terrorists.

what is the majority of a border agents time spent doing at the crossings? Arresting terrorists? Or inspecting good and assessing taxes.

So how would [sidearms] be needed to arrest a smuggler? You either get the guy a secure checkpoint that he can't bolt out of, or call local LEO in. Seriously I dont see why you don't work with local LEOs at crossings, hell the airports are fairly integrated. I am pretty sure all of our enforcement guys aren't armed, and we go into some seedy areas. If we need help we call the local LEOs to deal with it.

No her Majesty has said that if they are on the reserve then the same laws don't apply. Again read the appropriate acts. They are held to their own laws. Hell in their eyes they probably aren't even crossing a border since its a reserve on both sides.

I still say we either leave it unarmed, have an offsite tac team, or just dismantle our half of the bridge

Being issued a firearm as a LEO isn't a right, its a privlige, hence why many LEOs are not allowed to carry.


Anyways this 22 year old has been telling people that he is somewhere in the "Law Enforcement" in the city of Toronto although he won't say what exactly. I started placing guesses on what this guy is which seemed to make him mad; security guard, CBSA Officer, meter maid, bylaws,

And on a daily basis I'll deal with 6 white single mom's

nor do they trust the government that is supposed to serve them (And it would extend to the branch I work for too buds).

The officers I deal with

or when I talk to some of my friends who ARE CBSA agents

by that defiition my job involves fighting terror too

I am pretty sure all of our enforcement guys aren't armed, and we go into some seedy areas. If we need help we call the local LEOs to deal with it.

More often than not it is the same folks NWEST is nailing for smuggling we are nailing for proceeds.



I don't want to start something here on this fine forum. I posted the above just so you all could get a better understanding of what I've been trying to deal with for the past 12 hours.

If anyone wants to comment on some of the things he's said I'd be more than happy to pass along the info!

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bigbadjoe108
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Re: CBSA and sidearms

Postby bigbadjoe108 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:14 pm

Drache,

I admire you trying your best to sort out an idiot. Just remember one thing though:

Winning an argument on the internet is like winning gold at the special olympics, you may feel great about it, but you remain retarded.


:D


Just let it slide man, there are too many jerk offs like the one you are dealing with. If you convince him, another will simply step in his place.

:banghead:
VVV

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Re: CBSA and sidearms

Postby wazntme » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:54 pm

bigbadjoe108 wrote:Winning an argument on the internet is like winning gold at the special olympics, you may feel great about it, but you remain retarded.



:jump: :jump:

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Re: CBSA and sidearms

Postby No 20 Year Medal » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:56 pm

And on a daily basis I'll deal with 6 white single mom's
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Edited to put a pic in.......just because....
Last edited by No 20 Year Medal on Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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