Practice Makes Perfect - World's Fastest Auto Pistol Reload!

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A.T.R.
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Practice Makes Perfect - World's Fastest Auto Pistol Reload!

Postby A.T.R. » Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:46 pm

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Re: Practice Makes Perfect - World's Fastest Auto Pistol Reload!

Postby Bitterman » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:05 pm

Yeah... under ideal conditions with no stress.. gawd I hate IPSC :mrgreen:
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Re: Practice Makes Perfect - World's Fastest Auto Pistol Reload!

Postby Dave Brown » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:29 am

While I agree that practice makes perfect - or, more correctly, perfect practice makes perfect - a technique that requires a speed pouch, tapered magazine and a flared mag well to work has pretty much zero application on the street.

Not to mention there is almost no application in the real world for a slide-forward reload anyway.

Situation after situation after situation has taught us that, in a REAL life-threatening encounter, no one has the ability to accurately count their rounds in the middle of a gunfight. This means that the reload technique that needs to be an automatic response drill is the slide-back reload. This is the one that should be practiced 90% of the time and this is the one that will save your life in a real gun battle.

The person I would most want watching my back is the officer who was not the fastest reloader in the world or some whiny IPSC 'range-lawyer' but someone with good solid skills who remembers what they were taught by their police firearms instructors and practiced those same basic movements every day they handle their firearm. (Remember the "practice makes perfect" part?)

On the other hand, some of those folks can be silly-fast, although it does remind me a bit of the video on that dumb CAR method website where they show an assailant attacking an officer and the officer can reload their pistol before the assailant gets to them. Now, I am not the sharpest tool in the shed - hell, I am not even the sharpest SHED in the shed - but I always thought that the correct response when being attacked was to pull the trigger, not punch out the magazine. I guess it shows what the hell do I know.

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Re: Practice Makes Perfect - World's Fastest Auto Pistol Reload!

Postby A.T.R. » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:52 am

Im not too familiar with IPSC shooting, so I guess his modded gun has a lot to do with it.
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Re: Practice Makes Perfect - World's Fastest Auto Pistol Reload!

Postby Bald Man » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:32 am

TorontoCopper wrote:Im not too familiar with IPSC shooting, so I guess his modded gun has a lot to do with it.


In fairness to the top IPSC and other comp shooters out there, I'm sure if you provided them with police style training and equipment, they would still shoot very well. Yes, IPSC is about unrealistic as it gets and many weekend IPSC shooters are a bunch of geeks. However, I'm sure Team Springfield's Rob Leatham or Team Glock's Dave Sevigny would do just fine using stock police equipment and technique.

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Re: Practice Makes Perfect - World's Fastest Auto Pistol Reload!

Postby Bitterman » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:43 am

Dave Brown wrote:whiny IPSC 'range-lawyer'


:mrgreen: I love that expression.. "Range lawyer". I'll be using it for sure :mrgreen:

Everyone has their preference as to shooting sports, but I've found ipsc to have become so dumbed down it isn't any fun anymore.... For me anyway.

Comparing any shooting sport.. or rather "shooting game" to "real world" gun fightin' isn't really fair though Dave.
IPSC, IDPA etc are just games played for fun... There are few skills/practices in either game that would ever apply "on the street"

The games are fun for sure, but being a good IDPA shooter doesn't mean you'd survive a real armed encounter and being a hot shot IPSC shooter will certainly, 100% of the time get you killed in the real world... :mrgreen:
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Re: Practice Makes Perfect - World's Fastest Auto Pistol Reload!

Postby Dave Brown » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:40 am

Bitt, you are entirely correct.

They are games. They are also a lot of fun and taught me a huge amount about the body's performance under stress, the tachy psychia effect and the importance of mental discipline in stress situations. I shot IPSC for many many years. Rob Leatham was actually one of my instructors and I still have the leather holster he gave me - back when holsters were actually made from the skins of dead cows and not the skins of millions of tiny, innocent polymers.

What I don't like about the sport is the people that began emerging, thinking it was more than a game and that they were "practicing for real life."

Thankfully in my life, I was able to adapt what did work, learn what wouldn't work and study the science behind the physiology and psychology of sudden stress on the human body. I was able to learn what worked "old-school" and what was just an old wives' tale; what would (and has) actually work on the street and what might get you killed; what the difference between "practice makes perfect" and "perfect practice makes perfect"; and I have seen the world of police firearms training change substantially in the last 20 years.

Some of those changes were even brought about - although few will admit it - by the fact that civilians were shooting faster and more accurately in freestyle sports such as IPSC while police officers were still standing in long lines, shooting two rounds at a time and dumping their empty brass into buckets behind them.

Even today, I believe that certain techniques that work in competition may not necessarily work on the street but certain techniques that do NOT work in competition will NEVER work on the street. If it fails in the stress of competition, it will fail on the street (with MUCH greater consequences than a few points down!)

Sadly, sports such as IPSC seemed to attract more than their fair share of whiny range-lawyers, and the day it stopped being fun is the day I walked away, and never looked back. I have a lot of happy memories, shot some great competitions across the country, and I met some great friends, but ultimately, I will NOT miss most of the people.

If the sport folded tomorrow, I would not shed one tear. Every trophy I ever won is packed in boxes in the basement and none of them hold a single candle to the greatest trophy of my life.

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Re: Practice Makes Perfect - World's Fastest Auto Pistol Reload!

Postby El Conejo » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:33 pm

Dave Brown wrote:... none of them hold a single candle to the greatest trophy of my life.


Your 1993 DAVE award for best performer in Honorable Discharge?

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Re: Practice Makes Perfect - World's Fastest Auto Pistol Reload!

Postby TacticsPT » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:17 pm

Im going to go with "Worlds greatest Dad" or something like it

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Re: Practice Makes Perfect - World's Fastest Auto Pistol Reload!

Postby Bitterman » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:46 pm

I do still shoot ipsc, but just for fun... and that pisses some people off to no end. :mrgreen:
I mean this game... It's serious business don't y'know... :mrgreen:

I love it how some guys just can't accept that they "missed".... They'll spent 2 minutes staring at a target looking for that second hole... Get over it buddy, you missed :mrgreen:

My favorite type of "action" shooting is what people who are into it refer to as "three-gun" or "3-gun combat".
Elements of ipsc, idpa, uspsa are present, but it's a lot more physical.

Search Youtube for "Ironman 3 gun" or "Ft. Benning 3 gun" for an idea of what it's about..

I wish we could do more of it here at home, but the cfo would shit a brick.... as would most range/club execs.

I'm lucky though to have a kind wife who doesn't mind me buggerin' off for days at a time once or twice a monthto go to these matches...
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Re: Practice Makes Perfect - World's Fastest Auto Pistol Reload!

Postby Grassynarrows » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:00 am

3 gun is a blast to shoot.
Be professional and methodical. Take ownership of the situation. Look, listen and understand what is really being said and you will never have to walk away from an incident wondering if you missed something. Make every contact with the public count.

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Re: Practice Makes Perfect - World's Fastest Auto Pistol Reload!

Postby Greg W » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:23 pm

Have a look at Todd Jarrett's youtube videos.
What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog.
Dwight D. Eisenhower, speech to the Republican National Committee, January 31, 1958


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