CBSA firearm training

Discussion for firearms and less-lethal equipment.
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delta_3
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby delta_3 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:29 am

Gadget wrote:............and then pigs will fly.

HOLY SHIT!!! FLYING COPS!? WHY AREN'T WE INVESTING IN THIS NOW!? 88)
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby SierraSeven » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:43 am

Hmmm.
Last edited by SierraSeven on Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby dox29 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:03 pm

"If I'm expected to go as a CBSA officer, representing the agency and in full uniform, I should be carrying all my safety equipment."


Exact same problem here in my part of Quebec. I have always refused to go to functions without the belt. I went to a job fair this summer and my one condition was that I brought my firearm. I also had a hard time convincing them to let me go to court with my gun this summer.
A few officers from here are now on the recruiting task force and they don't wear their tools for recruiting events. I've told them how I felt that sucked but they say I don't understand the environment they work in. It would not be approved by their bosses or co workers(8 to 4 PM in-office officers from Montreal, that dread the day they will have to wear tools). Recruiting is a great interest of mine but I did not apply beacause of this kind of mentality. I should have applied, to try to change stuff but I did'nt.
Just got the email last week telling us to take off our belts to go buy coffee at the adjacent duty free store.
Like Hoodwinkle says the only way things will change is officers refuse to participate in events.
Last edited by dox29 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby CourtOfficer » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:16 pm

Gadget wrote:
PHB wrote:
At first I thought 10 years was ridiculous. No way it should take that long to arm 5,000 officers. But then, after experiencing first-hand some of the ... let's call them idiosyncrasies ... that exist within the CBSA, I realized that 10 years is realistic. And THEN they decided that practice sessions should be every 4 months...


Our course trainers told us that the agency is working on something that will allow us to take our sidearms out of the port and shoot on our own time. The agency would allow us a certain allotment of ammo and it would be up to us to decide if we need more training or not.


............and then pigs will fly.

I don't foresee any of this shit happening. The Ivory Tower is scared shitless of the firearms issue and wants to keep it under tight wraps! They're worried to death that something is going to go down wrong.

RANT ON!

Example: I show for work yesterday looking forward to heading out to the local YMCA for a "Racing Against Drugs" shindig. It's basically an event where school kids from all over the county in the 11-13yr range come out and meet with a variety of agencies (OPP, RCMP, Local Police, MTO, Fire Dept, Ambulance) We set up booths with games that the kids play in order to educate them against drug use as well as about what we all do, etc. It's great fun and it ends with a giant remote controlled race track that the kids go nuts on and, in the end, 3 schools place 1st, 2nd, 3rd. The kids get all sorts of neat stuff like pins and stickers and the like.

So, I'm heading out the door and the Supt says, "Gotta dump your gun." I say, "Pardon?" You see where this is going. He goes on and on saying CBSA policy doesn't allow this and that and there's no risks to my safety and I'm not actually doing "officer" work etc. He also says to me that none of the other agencies are carrying at this event either.

I tell him, "If I'm expected to go as a CBSA officer, representing the agency and in full uniform, I should be carrying all my safety equipment." He says I'm representing the agency, but in a "non-enforcement" status (whatever the f**k that is) I say fine. I'll either go in civvies or in partial uniform without insignia. He says, nope, full uniform no gun or you don't go. I say fine, to hell with it. I won't go. (I'm following this one up BTW.) They send a guy with 3 months on the job and I do line/curb all day. (I'm not even a line officer at the moment!)

That night, the Supt (who went) talks to me and says, "Yup, all the other agencies weren't carrying." I ask if this seems to be a pre-arranged thing between agencies due to it just being a bunch of young kids and maybe to present a less intimidating presence. He says "Yup". I say fine, I have no probs then if that's the case. I agree to go the next day.

I arrive at the YMCA today sans armour and gear. I arrive to find:
2x OPP full gear
1 RCMP full gear, 1 RCMP civvies with firearm on hip, 1 RCMP civvies no FA no identifiers
2x local PD, 1 full gear, 1 no gear (permanent accommodated office duties due to severe injuries from pursuit crash)
1 MTO armour and defensive gear

Needless to say, I had a great time with the kids as I have had in the past. I got back exhausted (I don't have kids and keep forgetting how much energy they have!) I then basically told the Supt that he was a liar and completely mislead me. I told him this crap with the gear is ridiculously juvenile and needs to stop.

Now, some folks may think I'm petty for bitching about this, but since I was issued my FA, it's gotten worse and worse. The first 6 mos I had it (I was in the first class July 07) it went where I went. Period. Then policy was changed so that I had to lock it up if I went for my lunch (on my own time) off site. Then it was expanded to include any in class courses or training held off site. Then we were told we had to shed/cover all CBSA insignia and dump armour and belts if leaving for lunch. Then they reversed the insignia decision only. Now it appears to be extended to off site period. (as per the bosses interpretation). Officers are still expected to be in full uniform minus their gear.

If I'm going to step out into the public eye, be readily identifiable as a law enforcement officer, and be on duty representing the agency, I feel that it's only common sense that I be properly equipped for safety of myself, my colleagues, and the public that I deal with in the event something happens!

Am I being reasonable or unreasonable about this?


I think you're being entirely reasonable. The boss basically lied to you so that you'd be without your issued safety equipment. I hope the union holds him accountable.

CO

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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby PHB » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:53 am

The super that told you to dump your siderarm is he/she armed? If I were in your position I would refuse to go out of sheer embarassment.

After training our course co-ordinator told us that he and the arming task force were working on a way to let us have access to our sidearms for our own shooting purposes. One of the officers that I worked with recently transfered to Ottawa to work with the Arming Task Force and she is saying that they are working on something for us to take our sidearms out as well. I can see that you're frustrated but I think something is in the works. Above all else it's financial you can't keep flying people from Prairies to Chilliwack for a practice shoot spending 5K each trip. As more and more people are armed they wont be able to afford it anymore.
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby NightHawk » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:10 am

My port is 20 mins from Chilliwack and yet I'll be heading out to the JI for my next practice shoot. What will happen as more officers are armed, if they fail to amend this stupid policy, is that instuctors will most likely be flown to the candidates and use will be made of local ranges. No point in sending 15 officers from Emerson, MB to Chilliwack when they can send 2 or 3 instructors the other way.
Looks like I need a new avatar...

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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby Gadget » Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:07 pm

NO! I don't know when they're hiring dammit! No one does.

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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby PHB » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:47 pm

NightHawk wrote:My port is 20 mins from Chilliwack and yet I'll be heading out to the JI for my next practice shoot. What will happen as more officers are armed, if they fail to amend this stupid policy, is that instuctors will most likely be flown to the candidates and use will be made of local ranges. No point in sending 15 officers from Emerson, MB to Chilliwack when they can send 2 or 3 instructors the other way.


That would work well if we had a range that was dedicated for CBSA use. Right now we shoot out of "D" Division which may or may not have space for us. That's why we have people flying out for a practice or a re-cert.
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby PHB » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:50 pm

Gadget wrote:It would make sense to bring the range to us instead!
[url]
http://www.mancomsystems.com/images/mob ... Page26.pdf[/url]

http://www.bluelinecorp.net/inside-trailer.htm


I wonder how much those mobile ranges cost?
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby delta_3 » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:28 pm



Hot shit those are awesome! That's all I've got...
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby TSE JR » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:14 pm

PHB wrote:
Gadget wrote:It would make sense to bring the range to us instead!
[url]
http://www.mancomsystems.com/images/mob ... Page26.pdf[/url]

http://www.bluelinecorp.net/inside-trailer.htm


I wonder how much those mobile ranges cost?


A lot.... When we built TSE in Calgary 8 years ago, the mancom system was $10K per LANE (without the backstop or dividers)

When we polled the professional users if they would pay a premium to use teh mancom retrievers, all said no... hense why we stayed away.

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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby NatWood » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:21 pm

PHB wrote:
Gadget wrote:It would make sense to bring the range to us instead!
[url]
http://www.mancomsystems.com/images/mob ... Page26.pdf[/url]

http://www.bluelinecorp.net/inside-trailer.htm


I wonder how much those mobile ranges cost?


Saanich PD here in BC bought a mobile trailer range, i think the reported price was in the $300000range.

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolo ... 95fccef65e

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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby Icey » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:27 pm

three 40 foot firing lanes

About 42 feet to short for us.


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