CBSA firearm training

Discussion for firearms and less-lethal equipment.
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delta_3
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby delta_3 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:01 am

Actus Reus wrote:...In the meantime, officers are being sent to either the Connaught range in Ottawa or the federal training centre at Chiliwack, BC...


Haha Connaught...what a dump. That`s all...
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby wicked_police » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:37 am

Actus Reus wrote:The big problem is that we shoot lead-based ammunition, which requires specialized ventilation and other equipment to accomodate the rounds.



Got news for ya big guy. Most ammo used is lead based(excluding the specialized ammo like Dave talked about, along with a few others).

The ammo you guys use in our range at Connaught is all 'clean' ammo. The bullet is fully encapuslated and the primer is also enviromentally friendly. This reduces the lead burned at the base of a typical bullet when fired, and the other contaminents from the primer.
The ventilation isn't that special, it's just not made for dirty ammo. The filters would have to be changed much more often and we'd have problems with it if regular amo was used.


delta_3 wrote:Haha Connaught...what a dump. That`s all...


:?: The parts of Connaught we use are pretty good, not at all what I'd call a dump. The outdoor ranges are all top quality.

Our range and CQB are better than what we used at DHTC.

The gym there is a bit better though... :P

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Icey
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby Icey » Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:38 am

The facilities were great. The food was even better!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby Icey » Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:26 pm

No, We had cereal, toast, hardboiled eggs, fruit, ect. Our region advised us that if the breakfast didnt meet our needs we could eat elsewhere and keep the reciept. I didnt see anyone go out for breakfast. I found it ok. In real life I never have more than cereal and toast in the morning Monday to Friday.
I was discussing the training with a UOF instructor at OPC and it sounds like our training is top notch. I especialy enjoyed the simunition senarios :pistols:

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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby Icey » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:44 am

I think that the simunition senarios should be mandatory for anyone carrying a firearm. It gives them an opportunity to test your judgement in different U of F senarios. ie Do you know when to draw, when to point and when to fire.

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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby delta_3 » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:39 pm

haha, connaught is a mixed bag that's for sure. For one, it has an AWESOME mess! No joke, better than some restaurants! The accomodations however...are lacking. The 2/room is nice, but the beds are sick, and the place is disgusting...the kind of disgusting that no man can clean out even in a couple months of training. I also remember wakin up to a guy one night screaming like a girl because he woke up to a couple huge ass rats sittin on his stomach. Hilarious, but pretty nasty. Also the heating system in the shacks has a habit of spewing dust bunnies. I remember during one of our inspections, our sergeant was pacing down the hall when a few of us saw a HUGE (like, 10cm diameter) dustbunny flew out of the vent and latch onto his leg. We got hell for that! The ranges are pretty nice, can't attest to the indoor ranges though, never done sidearm training. It's a mixed bag, but there are nicer training facilities here in Nova Scotia...
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby portcullisguy » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:45 pm

Actus Reus wrote:We're a government agency, so the word 'efficiency' is not in our vocabulary.


True.

Our own indoor and outdoor ranges at the CBSA Rigaud training centre are under construction and won't be ready for another year or two.


Also true.

The initial plan was to have all of our officers armed within 10 years. There has been some efforts at speeding this up, which is why some private ranges have been approached by the Agency. Basically, we would rent the space and provide our own instructors. The big problem is that we shoot lead-based ammunition, which requires specialized ventilation and other equipment to accomodate the rounds. This cuts down on the number of ranges we can use.


At first I thought 10 years was ridiculous. No way it should take that long to arm 5,000 officers. But then, after experiencing first-hand some of the ... let's call them idiosyncrasies ... that exist within the CBSA, I realized that 10 years is realistic. And THEN they decided that practice sessions should be every 4 months...
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby PHB » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:05 am

At first I thought 10 years was ridiculous. No way it should take that long to arm 5,000 officers. But then, after experiencing first-hand some of the ... let's call them idiosyncrasies ... that exist within the CBSA, I realized that 10 years is realistic. And THEN they decided that practice sessions should be every 4 months...


Our course trainers told us that the agency is working on something that will allow us to take our sidearms out of the port and shoot on our own time. The agency would allow us a certain allotment of ammo and it would be up to us to decide if we need more training or not.
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby dox29 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:28 pm

PHB wrote:
At first I thought 10 years was ridiculous. No way it should take that long to arm 5,000 officers. But then, after experiencing first-hand some of the ... let's call them idiosyncrasies ... that exist within the CBSA, I realized that 10 years is realistic. And THEN they decided that practice sessions should be every 4 months...


Our course trainers told us that the agency is working on something that will allow us to take our sidearms out of the port and shoot on our own time. The agency would allow us a certain allotment of ammo and it would be up to us to decide if we need more training or not.

I also heard that from a good source last week. Did'nt know about the free bullets though. I like.

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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby NightHawk » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:39 pm

About time. The RCMP is pushing for this policy change as well.
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby North of 60 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:19 pm

what policy change? The free ammo or taking your gat out to shoot on your own time?

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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby Gadget » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:52 am

PHB wrote:
At first I thought 10 years was ridiculous. No way it should take that long to arm 5,000 officers. But then, after experiencing first-hand some of the ... let's call them idiosyncrasies ... that exist within the CBSA, I realized that 10 years is realistic. And THEN they decided that practice sessions should be every 4 months...


Our course trainers told us that the agency is working on something that will allow us to take our sidearms out of the port and shoot on our own time. The agency would allow us a certain allotment of ammo and it would be up to us to decide if we need more training or not.


............and then pigs will fly.

I don't foresee any of this shit happening. The Ivory Tower is scared shitless of the firearms issue and wants to keep it under tight wraps! They're worried to death that something is going to go down wrong.

RANT ON!

Example: I show for work yesterday looking forward to heading out to the local YMCA for a "Racing Against Drugs" shindig. It's basically an event where school kids from all over the county in the 11-13yr range come out and meet with a variety of agencies (OPP, RCMP, Local Police, MTO, Fire Dept, Ambulance) We set up booths with games that the kids play in order to educate them against drug use as well as about what we all do, etc. It's great fun and it ends with a giant remote controlled race track that the kids go nuts on and, in the end, 3 schools place 1st, 2nd, 3rd. The kids get all sorts of neat stuff like pins and stickers and the like.

So, I'm heading out the door and the Supt says, "Gotta dump your gun." I say, "Pardon?" You see where this is going. He goes on and on saying CBSA policy doesn't allow this and that and there's no risks to my safety and I'm not actually doing "officer" work etc. He also says to me that none of the other agencies are carrying at this event either.

I tell him, "If I'm expected to go as a CBSA officer, representing the agency and in full uniform, I should be carrying all my safety equipment." He says I'm representing the agency, but in a "non-enforcement" status (whatever the f**k that is) I say fine. I'll either go in civvies or in partial uniform without insignia. He says, nope, full uniform no gun or you don't go. I say fine, to hell with it. I won't go. (I'm following this one up BTW.) They send a guy with 3 months on the job and I do line/curb all day. (I'm not even a line officer at the moment!)

That night, the Supt (who went) talks to me and says, "Yup, all the other agencies weren't carrying." I ask if this seems to be a pre-arranged thing between agencies due to it just being a bunch of young kids and maybe to present a less intimidating presence. He says "Yup". I say fine, I have no probs then if that's the case. I agree to go the next day.

I arrive at the YMCA today sans armour and gear. I arrive to find:
2x OPP full gear
1 RCMP full gear, 1 RCMP civvies with firearm on hip, 1 RCMP civvies no FA no identifiers
2x local PD, 1 full gear, 1 no gear (permanent accommodated office duties due to severe injuries from pursuit crash)
1 MTO armour and defensive gear

Needless to say, I had a great time with the kids as I have had in the past. I got back exhausted (I don't have kids and keep forgetting how much energy they have!) I then basically told the Supt that he was a liar and completely mislead me. I told him this crap with the gear is ridiculously juvenile and needs to stop.

Now, some folks may think I'm petty for bitching about this, but since I was issued my FA, it's gotten worse and worse. The first 6 mos I had it (I was in the first class July 07) it went where I went. Period. Then policy was changed so that I had to lock it up if I went for my lunch (on my own time) off site. Then it was expanded to include any in class courses or training held off site. Then we were told we had to shed/cover all CBSA insignia and dump armour and belts if leaving for lunch. Then they reversed the insignia decision only. Now it appears to be extended to off site period. (as per the bosses interpretation). Officers are still expected to be in full uniform minus their gear.

If I'm going to step out into the public eye, be readily identifiable as a law enforcement officer, and be on duty representing the agency, I feel that it's only common sense that I be properly equipped for safety of myself, my colleagues, and the public that I deal with in the event something happens!

Am I being reasonable or unreasonable about this?
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Re: CBSA firearm training

Postby El Conejo » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:16 am

Good on ya man :thumbsup:

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