CPS adds firepower

Discussion for firearms and less-lethal equipment.
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danoman
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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby danoman » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:52 pm

I have a massive French-English dictionary sitting next to my desk. I avoid google translator at all costs, it doesn't take into account different contexts it just translates directly. Try www.granddictionnaire.com.
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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby Respond Wayne » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:16 pm

danoman wrote:I have a massive French-English dictionary sitting next to my desk. I avoid google translator at all costs, it doesn't take into account different contexts it just translates directly. Try http://www.granddictionnaire.com.


Ahh, that's french... I only took Grade 9 Basic French in High School... only because I had to... I actually did really well but can't remember a thing... must have been that self inflicted head wound in Belleville back in 1992. :twitch:

Google translate kinda gives you a general idea of what's being said... sometimes...
LIVE IN THE PEEL REGION AREA?
VOLUNTEERS WANTED!
>>> RSAR.CA <<<


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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby Mark S » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:11 am

Babelfish wrote:- Dirigez CETTE extrémité au mauvais garçon.
- Tirez le déclenchement.
- Répétez selon les besoins.


To get this slightly back on topic, I think I'd prefer a shotgun during a high-risk take-down.
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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby B Red » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:35 am

Dave Brown wrote:
HwyBear wrote:Rifles serve no purpose on a high risk take down sitting in my trunk! Put them in the front also!!
Absolutely agreed, but not everyone has the choice of both. While I am a big fan of patrol rifles, I am also a bigger fan of shotguns. Given a choice, I want the shorter-range defensive weapon up close.


Shotguns should be relegated to breaching and less lethal use. Outside those niche roles, a shotgun confers no advantage over a carbine and is far less versatile.

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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby RJB » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:38 am

B Red wrote:
Dave Brown wrote:
HwyBear wrote:Rifles serve no purpose on a high risk take down sitting in my trunk! Put them in the front also!!
Absolutely agreed, but not everyone has the choice of both. While I am a big fan of patrol rifles, I am also a bigger fan of shotguns. Given a choice, I want the shorter-range defensive weapon up close.


Shotguns should be relegated to breaching and less lethal use. Outside those niche roles, a shotgun confers no advantage over a carbine and is far less versatile.
Is that from a policing standpoint or a military standpoint.. because those are miles and miles apart.

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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby Bald Man » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:59 am

OntarioFiveOh wrote:They're not that far apart at all when it comes to this and I'd have to agree. Shotguns are good for in close and breaching, but a rifle allows you to back off and make use of cover/concealment and still react if you have to. The C8 with the retractable stock is the perfect example of a carbine that can be used to clear buildings without giving away position. It also allows you to fire repetitively if you have to without the kick that a shotgun will give ,thus allowing you to stay on target longer. Though if you're close enough with a shotgun it's just point and shoot.


Both shotgun and rifle(carbine) have their place in LE today. But I think the carbine has more to offer general patrol officers for reason O50 has stated. Recoil is a huge one especially with all the PW's on patrol these days. ;)

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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby B Red » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:03 pm

RJB wrote: Is that from a policing standpoint or a military standpoint.. because those are miles and miles apart.


From a shooting people standpoint.

I can't envision a task where a shotgun would be more advantageous than the carbine.
The carbine has less recoil for quicker follow-up shots, is more accurate, has a higher magazine capacity and rate of fire, and is typically equipped with a close quarter optic which allows faster target acquisition and the use of unconventional firing positions.

Edited to add:
If there are special LE applications for shotguns where they outperform carbines, I'd like to know.

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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby Grassynarrows » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:46 pm

Shotguns do have a role in LE still. Carbines are great to have also.
Be professional and methodical. Take ownership of the situation. Look, listen and understand what is really being said and you will never have to walk away from an incident wondering if you missed something. Make every contact with the public count.

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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby Bruce » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:17 am

Grassynarrows wrote:Shotguns do have a role in LE still. Carbines are great to have also.


CPS are retaining a mixture of shotguns and patrol rifles. According to the article 120 officers are being equipped with the C8. This is out of a strength of 1600 (not all of whom will be working patrol). So there will be lots of shotguns out there for situations where they are required.
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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby Bitterman » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:03 pm

Grassynarrows wrote:Shotguns do have a role in LE still. Carbines are great to have also.



This will all be moot once the gov't bans all the guns...
Noone will have a gun so the police won't need 'em either.
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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby Bald Man » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:01 pm

Grassynarrows wrote:Shotguns do have a role in LE still. Carbines are great to have also.


If anyone on this forum can attest to this, it would be grassy.

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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby Grassynarrows » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:58 pm

I have both out on patrol with me at all times.
Be professional and methodical. Take ownership of the situation. Look, listen and understand what is really being said and you will never have to walk away from an incident wondering if you missed something. Make every contact with the public count.

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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby Bitterman » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:29 pm

Hoodwinkle wrote:I'd say it best to have both the carbine and shotgun out for patrol....


Then what you need is... The "Masterkey" :mrgreen:

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Re: CPS adds firepower

Postby Toonces » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:50 pm

Bald Man wrote:Both shotgun and rifle(carbine) have their place in LE today. But I think the carbine has more to offer general patrol officers for reason O50 has stated. Recoil is a huge one especially with all the PW's on patrol these days. ;)
With proper shooting stance and grip, the shotgun recoil is a non-issue, "PW"s or no. Interestingly, at my firearms requal, no "PW"s had an issue with the shotgun, while one male did. Eh, I'm sure it was just the shotgun, not user error. :roll:

I love the shotgun, it's fun to shoot. Well, so is the C8. I take them both out on patrol, although in a situation, I'd grab my C8 first for the reasons O50 stated.
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