International Defense Pistol Association

Discussion for firearms and less-lethal equipment.
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Dave Brown
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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby Dave Brown » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:24 pm

portcullisguy wrote:Our RSM puts it another way: "In combat you do not rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of training."


I LOVE that line. I am henceforth going to shamefully steal it at every opportunity. Could you find out what the RSM's name is, if it is original, because I want to credit it to the right person.

I am not really going to weigh in on IPSC/IDPA because:
a) as others have said, any trigger time is good, BUT
b) you could end up learning bad habits, and
c) a sport is only as good as the participants, and this is where 'range lawyers' and gun droolers at IPSC/IDPA matches can kill the sport for professionals very quickly.

(Range officer to IDPA participant: "Okay. On this stage, you are entering a grocery store where there are six armed assailants and an unknown number of hostages. On the start signal, you will enter the store and engage the assailants with two rounds each and don't hit any hostages. Ready?"
IDPA participant - who is also a law enforcement professional: "Are you out of your fucking mind?")

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Bitterman
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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby Bitterman » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:02 pm

Dave Brown wrote:(Range officer to IDPA participant: "Okay. On this stage, you are entering a grocery store where there are six armed assailants and an unknown number of hostages. On the start signal, you will enter the store and engage the assailants with two rounds each and don't hit any hostages. Ready?"
IDPA participant - who is also a law enforcement professional: "Are you out of your fucking mind?")


That's okay... 'cause it's just a game :mrgreen:
One of my buds who runs these types of matches steals all his scenario ideas from movies like "Die Hard", "Collateral", anything with a shoot 'em scene or two.
Since most Hollywood shoot 'em ups aren't exactly "tactically correct" neither are the stages at these matches. They're supposed to be fun.
These games should never be confused with training... Transferring your IDPA/IPSC habits to the street in an armed confrontation will at best get you sued and at worst get you killed. :swords:
Admit nothing.
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Make counter accusations...

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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby PHB » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:09 am

I just talked to some of our armed members and they said that they are allowed to have one training session every four months as per policy. This is supposed to be with a CBSA certified trainer at a certified range. The first people that have been trained have been carrying for about a year and they have had only one practice session and it has been without a trainer. When I go for training I definitely will be going more than that even if I have to buy a restricted version of the PX4.
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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby HDinMB » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:37 pm

I shoot about every other CDP match that the local range has, about once every two months. I would shoot more frequently but some of the guys there get a little too into it. As was already described the scenarios are designed to mimic 'real life' situations and frankly I think that's just stupid. I enjoy the shooting practice and it's something different than just lining up at a firing line, but your experience will depend on who your shooting with and what their attitude is.

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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby PHB » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:58 am

HDinMB wrote:I shoot about every other CDP match that the local range has, about once every two months. I would shoot more frequently but some of the guys there get a little too into it. As was already described the scenarios are designed to mimic 'real life' situations and frankly I think that's just stupid. I enjoy the shooting practice and it's something different than just lining up at a firing line, but your experience will depend on who your shooting with and what their attitude is.


Where do you shoot out of?
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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby HDinMB » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:18 pm

PM Sent.

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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby TSE JR » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:04 am

PHB wrote:
If you can perform well and get good scores under stock conditions, you'll probably do ok when the chips are down ... assuming you don't freeze and shit your pants.


Well I hope I never have to find out! If I ever have to I want to be the best with my sidearm that I can possibly be so as soon As I get trained I will get involved with the nearest IDPA certified range.


As someone who has been in a fire fight, I can attest to this... I have witnessed Sgt's with 20 years experience run the other way :banghead:

Don't poopoo IDPA and the like... as stated before, its all trigger time. To discount pracical shooting leagues, in my opinion, is a diservice to yourself; its far better training and far more "realistic" then the standard course of fires that are used to qualify.

Just my opinion.

JR
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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby PHB » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:23 am

TSE JR wrote:
PHB wrote:
If you can perform well and get good scores under stock conditions, you'll probably do ok when the chips are down ... assuming you don't freeze and shit your pants.


Well I hope I never have to find out! If I ever have to I want to be the best with my sidearm that I can possibly be so as soon As I get trained I will get involved with the nearest IDPA certified range.


As someone who has been in a fire fight, I can attest to this... I have witnessed Sgt's with 20 years experience run the other way :banghead:

Don't poopoo IDPA and the like... as stated before, its all trigger time. To discount pracical shooting leagues, in my opinion, is a diservice to yourself; its far better training and far more "realistic" then the standard course of fires that are used to qualify.

Just my opinion.



JR


What you're saying makes sense! When I get armed im going to try and shoot independantly as much as I can. The vast majority of armed LE officers will never use their sidearm but if we have to we should be prepared. I don't ever want to not be prepared.
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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby TackleberryG22 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:57 pm

As Bitterman said it is a game, and something to remember, it can be used as a 'conduit' for training and trigger time...... but you should always be coming in last place!!


To perform properly thru the coarse of fire, and 'tactically' move thru it, you 'will always be in last place' as it is timed.
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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby portcullisguy » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:41 pm

Joining a competitive pistol circuit could be great fun, and added trigger time. The cost can get disgusting if you get involved fully and do lots of shooting. Of course, you can reload your own ammunition, that brings the costs down a bit.

Another idea is to save your pennies and go for one of those tactical shooting courses in the U.S. You may not be able to bring a duty firearm ( ... um, almost certainly will not be able to bring, I should say), but if you own a similar pistol you can bring that, or sometimes arrange a local rental/loaner.

Smith & Wesson Academy is supposed to be very good. Heckler & Koch's academy got bought out by Blackwater. Gunsite has been around forever. The NRA also runs Law Enforcement firearm courses all over the U.S.
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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby TackleberryG22 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:36 am

I can recommend both S&W (Law Enf't Patrol Carbine)and the NRA LEAD (Law Enf't Handgun & Shotgun) Instructor courses.

Difference between the two organizations,

NRA uses host agencies facilities, students must be self-supporting for all equip. & ammo

S&W Academy is a piece of history, has the professional facility. Courses include ammo supply and loaner f/a are available. I understand they sometimes go on the road, but mostly in Springfield MA.
"Heros In Life, Not Death" Ontario's Police Officer Memorial

"Friendly Fire, Isn't"
"Incoming Fire Has The Right-of-way."
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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby PHB » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:21 am

TackleberryG22 wrote:I can recommend both S&W (Law Enf't Patrol Carbine)and the NRA LEAD (Law Enf't Handgun & Shotgun) Instructor courses.

Difference between the two organizations,

NRA uses host agencies facilities, students must be self-supporting for all equip. & ammo

S&W Academy is a piece of history, has the professional facility. Courses include ammo supply and loaner f/a are available. I understand they sometimes go on the road, but mostly in Springfield MA.


There is an IDPA certified range one hour drive from me and I will be attending soon! Hopefully they have a sidearm that I can use when i'm there.
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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby HDinMB » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:42 pm

PHB wrote:There is an IDPA certified range one hour drive from me and I will be attending soon! Hopefully they have a sidearm that I can use when i'm there.


You're going to join us? Right on :thumbsup:

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Re: International Defense Pistol Association

Postby PHB » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:36 am

HDinMB wrote:
PHB wrote:There is an IDPA certified range one hour drive from me and I will be attending soon! Hopefully they have a sidearm that I can use when i'm there.


You're going to join us? Right on :thumbsup:


For sure when I get armed I will have to purchase my own sidearm but I think it will be worth it.
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