CBSA & RCMP Course of Fire

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Re: CBSA & RCMP Course of Fire

Postby Jim Street » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:27 pm

ok.....we don't do either here....we went to the CAR (center axis relock) system, it's different and more tactical. but has it's pros and cons...this is the site....www.sabretactical.com
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Re: CBSA & RCMP Course of Fire

Postby VoteQuimby » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:55 pm

So, can you use the Weaver stance during the CBSA firearms training?
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Re: CBSA & RCMP Course of Fire

Postby Dave Brown » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:44 pm

Jim Street wrote:ok.....we don't do either here....we went to the CAR (center axis relock) system, it's different and more tactical. but has it's pros and cons...


<<<<shudder>>>>

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Re: CBSA & RCMP Course of Fire

Postby Dave Brown » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:50 pm

VQ, the key to the proper stance is what is most instinctive in a sudden stress situation. Dusty explained it best:
dusty wrote:The weaver stance isn't generally taught because its for more advanced shooters, ie. tac teams. The isosceles stance is taught because it's simple and easy and without extensive training it's the one you'll insinctively revert to when confronted with a threat in a high risk situation. The weaver stance is taught to tac team members (and military) because they have much more time to train with it and commit it to muscle memory (not once or twice a year to requal). The weaver is more tactical in regards to movement, and using cover/concealment (with very little difference in vest coverage if used properly). I'm not saying the isoceles isn't good for what its used for, just that the weaver is more tactically sound with the proper amount of training.


Few firearms instructors would force a shooter out of a Weaver stance IF that person used it instinctively, but they would need to prove that this was the most effective stance for them and that they had practiced the 1000 repetitions it takes to make this instinctive in an emergency. This is why good firearms instructors might know five different ways to accomplish the same thing, but they only teach ONE way. If that one way doesn't work for the odd student, then they can teach another way, but the worst thing to be given in emergency manipulation training is too many options.

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Re: CBSA & RCMP Course of Fire

Postby VoteQuimby » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:46 am

Thanks, this stance has always been more comfortable and natural to me. I find it helps absorb most of the recoil.
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249/250?

Postby VoteQuimby » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:11 am

portcullisguy wrote:
Striker wrote:I was going to say, the RCMP use a standard B-27 silhouette. Not sure if it's black, blue or green though... :roll:


It's not quite "standard". The silhouette is, but the scoring rings are an RCMP invention. The target has both a tactical and marksmanship scoring zone marked on it, and the zones are marked for 5, 3 and 2 point scores (or 0 if you miss the silhouette).

So, during the 50-shot course of fire, the highest possible score is 250 (50 x 5 = 250).

We saw both a green and a blue silhouette. Apparently, blue wasn't favoured ... something about shooting at people wearing blue sending the wrong message to the coppers/BSOs. :)


If the points go from 5 to 3, then 2... how can someone shoot a 249? I believe one of the BSOs who went through the training said one officer had a 249/250. My math isn't the greatest but isn't this impossible considering the point structure?
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Re: CBSA & RCMP Course of Fire

Postby Gard » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:42 pm

You can't shoot a 249. 248 is the next highest score to perfect. Somebody made a mistake in retelling that story.
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Re: CBSA & RCMP Course of Fire

Postby Gard » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:58 pm

Impressive as that shot may be, it counts for 0. Props for style, though.
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Re: CBSA & RCMP Course of Fire

Postby VoteQuimby » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:59 pm

Gard wrote:You can't shoot a 249. 248 is the next highest score to perfect. Somebody made a mistake in retelling that story.


Thanks
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Re: CBSA & RCMP Course of Fire

Postby portcullisguy » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:21 pm

Gard wrote:You can't shoot a 249. 248 is the next highest score to perfect. Somebody made a mistake in retelling that story.


Probably me! :oops:

I know I missed a perfect score only by 1 shot going off the 5, during the day we had to shoot outdoors -- when the indoor range was having problems with the ventilation system. So yeah it would have had to have been a 248.. oops, my bad...
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Re: CBSA & RCMP Course of Fire

Postby Mark S » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:45 pm

Gard wrote:Impressive as that shot may be, it counts for 0. Props for style, though.

And still doesn't add up to 249. You'd have to have a shot that counted for 4.
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Re: CBSA & RCMP Course of Fire

Postby Gard » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:24 pm

portcullisguy wrote:
Gard wrote:You can't shoot a 249. 248 is the next highest score to perfect. Somebody made a mistake in retelling that story.


Probably me! :oops:

I know I missed a perfect score only by 1 shot going off the 5, during the day we had to shoot outdoors -- when the indoor range was having problems with the ventilation system. So yeah it would have had to have been a 248.. oops, my bad...


I was there that day. That indoor range seems like it's going to burn down on a regular basis but it never does.
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Re: CBSA & RCMP Course of Fire

Postby portcullisguy » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:16 pm

Gard wrote:
portcullisguy wrote:
Gard wrote:You can't shoot a 249. 248 is the next highest score to perfect. Somebody made a mistake in retelling that story.


Probably me! :oops:

I know I missed a perfect score only by 1 shot going off the 5, during the day we had to shoot outdoors -- when the indoor range was having problems with the ventilation system. So yeah it would have had to have been a 248.. oops, my bad...


I was there that day. That indoor range seems like it's going to burn down on a regular basis but it never does.


Seems like quite a nice range, too. Shame if it's suffering from mechanical issues frequently. I'm used to civvie ranges that have the fancy target holders on the wires, but I can see the usefulness of having a nice big open range like the indoor one at Connaught - you can get very creative with range training in that case.

I did some live-fire house clearing in Florida, with the army, a couple years back, and you want to talk about dynamic! But you certainly pay attention to where your shots are going when your mate is breaching a building and blatting rounds off, and you are the cover guy pouring rounds into the same building from outside of it. A nice big open range made it possible to do safely, without lanes marked off, etc.
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