9 mm. - 40 or 45?

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macguy9
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Re:

Postby macguy9 » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:02 am

VoteQuimby wrote:My feelings are; I would like to have the first shot that hits the bad guy either spin him around or take him off his feet.


Funny thing... I was reading a report (sorry, can't remember where from) where psychologists interviewed a group of 'clients' who had made the mistake of pointing a weapon at a member and, not surprisingly, getting shot as a result.

The majority of those people who knew they'd been shot staggered back or fell down because it was what they expected they should do when they got shot... not because of the blunt force trauma. We've been conditioned by the media that people who get shot should fly back/fall down, so we do. That's why part of the training they beat into police from day 1 is the 'survival mentality'... win at any cost. If you get shot and don't think about falling down, you'll likely keep fighting, and there's a better chance of survival.

Truth be told, the calibre of the weapon and the weight of the bullet doesn't really matter, so long as you're a good shot with it. Remember... any gunfight can be won with three bullets or less, regardless of the calibre.
;)
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Re: Re:

Postby Bald Man » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:44 am

macguy9 wrote:
VoteQuimby wrote:My feelings are; I would like to have the first shot that hits the bad guy either spin him around or take him off his feet.


Funny thing... I was reading a report (sorry, can't remember where from) where psychologists interviewed a group of 'clients' who had made the mistake of pointing a weapon at a member and, not surprisingly, getting shot as a result.

The majority of those people who knew they'd been shot staggered back or fell down because it was what they expected they should do when they got shot... not because of the blunt force trauma. We've been conditioned by the media that people who get shot should fly back/fall down, so we do. That's why part of the training they beat into police from day 1 is the 'survival mentality'... win at any cost. If you get shot and don't think about falling down, you'll likely keep fighting, and there's a better chance of survival.

Truth be told, the calibre of the weapon and the weight of the bullet doesn't really matter, so long as you're a good shot with it. Remember... any gunfight can be won with three bullets or less, regardless of the calibre.
;)


I would wager a bet that if someone got shot with a 12 gauge (slug or buckshot up close) that would be thrown to the ground. Also, with high powered rifles, there is a very high velocity and energy that would throw someone on there can. I've never shot a deer or large animal, but I have seen them get shot and most often they crumble where they stand.

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Re: Re:

Postby VoteQuimby » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:18 pm

macguy9 wrote:
VoteQuimby wrote:My feelings are; I would like to have the first shot that hits the bad guy either spin him around or take him off his feet.


Funny thing... I was reading a report (sorry, can't remember where from) where psychologists interviewed a group of 'clients' who had made the mistake of pointing a weapon at a member and, not surprisingly, getting shot as a result.

The majority of those people who knew they'd been shot staggered back or fell down because it was what they expected they should do when they got shot... not because of the blunt force trauma. We've been conditioned by the media that people who get shot should fly back/fall down, so we do. That's why part of the training they beat into police from day 1 is the 'survival mentality'... win at any cost. If you get shot and don't think about falling down, you'll likely keep fighting, and there's a better chance of survival.

Truth be told, the calibre of the weapon and the weight of the bullet doesn't really matter, so long as you're a good shot with it. Remember... any gunfight can be won with three bullets or less, regardless of the calibre.
;)


If that were true cbsa would be getting 22s for sure... they match the minivans really well :D
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Re: Re:

Postby Bitterman » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:12 pm

macguy9 wrote:The majority of those people who knew they'd been shot staggered back or fell down because it was what they expected they should do when they got shot... not because of the blunt force trauma. We've been conditioned by the media that people who get shot should fly back/fall down, so we do. ;)


Well not everyone...
About three months ago I witnessed a guy shoot himself through the foot with a .40 :shock:
'Stood there with a rather b'fuddled look on his face before handing his pistol to the RO and limping off the range...
Eventually he appeared to go into a bit of shock, but after his 18hr ordeal(wait) in Emerg. he came out okay...
Crazy bastard was back on the range two weeks later...
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Re: Re:

Postby Bald Man » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:58 pm

Bitterman wrote:
macguy9 wrote:The majority of those people who knew they'd been shot staggered back or fell down because it was what they expected they should do when they got shot... not because of the blunt force trauma. We've been conditioned by the media that people who get shot should fly back/fall down, so we do. ;)


Well not everyone...
About three months ago I witnessed a guy shoot himself through the foot with a .40 :shock:
'Stood there with a rather b'fuddled look on his face before handing his pistol to the RO and limping off the range...
Eventually he appeared to go into a bit of shock, but after his 18hr ordeal(wait) in Emerg. he came out okay...
Crazy bastard was back on the range two weeks later...


Hopefully after some remedial training...and no booze on the range!!

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Re: 9 mm. - 40 or 45?

Postby AuxHorseman » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:42 am

Well not everyone...
About three months ago I witnessed a guy shoot himself through the foot with a .40 :shock:
'Stood there with a rather b'fuddled look on his face before handing his pistol to the RO and limping off the range...
Eventually he appeared to go into a bit of shock, but after his 18hr ordeal(wait) in Emerg. he came out okay...
Crazy bastard was back on the range two weeks later...


A little while ago during annual qualifications, an RM from a neighbouring detachment manged to discharge his shotgun laterally across the firing line. There was a little bit of :cuss: , but thankfully noone was hurt.

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Re: Re:

Postby Bitterman » Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:27 pm

Bald Man wrote:Hopefully after some remedial training...and no booze on the range!!


Well.... since mentioned it.
No remedial training was suggested or required. I mean really... what are the chances of shooting yourself in the foot twice?
One thing the event did illistrate well is that it's not neccessarrily the new shooter(s) who pose the most risk for accidents.
The only shooters I've ever had to DQ for unsafe gun handling were all very experienced/accomplished pistoleros/riflemen.
I assume it's 'cause the newbies are so afraid of f***ing up that they are soooo careful not to...

I will say this tthough... When the guy I mentioned now steps up to the firing line everyone appears to stand back a bit further than normal... ;)
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Re: 9 mm. - 40 or 45?

Postby Aubs » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:16 am

If im not mistaken, all Police Services in Ontario issue the 40 S&W except for military police and RCMP. I could be wrong.

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Re: 9 mm. - 40 or 45?

Postby Bald Man » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:30 pm

Aubs wrote:If im not mistaken, all Police Services in Ontario issue the 40 S&W except for military police and RCMP. I could be wrong.


Belleville police issue the Glock 17 9mm as their standard issue sidearm. Most issue a 40 S&W, but not all.

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Re: 9 mm. - 40 or 45?

Postby veritas_aequitas » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:28 pm

Glock:

TPS
WRPS
HRPS

The list continues and more are switching every year.

And of course the OPP with their Sig.
va

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Re: 9 mm. - 40 or 45?

Postby Dave Brown » Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:00 am

ALL will be answered in December. We have completed our survey of every agency in Canada and what they carry for firearm and calibre.

Our survey is certified to be less than 5% error free 18 times out of 20. (The 19th time, we are WAY out and the 20th time ran off with the fifth of the four out of five dentists surveyed survey.)

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Re: 9 mm. - 40 or 45?

Postby veritas_aequitas » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:57 am

Casey Jones wrote:
veritas_aequitas wrote:Glock:

TPS
WRPS
HRPS

The list continues and more are switching every year.

And of course the OPP with their Sig.


if your 'HRPS' is halton, they don't use glock.. they use the beretta.

to add to the list of glock users..
YRP
DRPS
LPS
HPS
OPS

i saw my first tripple feed with a sig last week. didn't look like much fun.


I was just coming back to fix that. Meant HPS. With a fair number of the major municipal forces using Glocks and the OPP with the Sig, safe to say the majority of Ontario are not using S&W 40.
va

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Re: 9 mm. - 40 or 45?

Postby Gard » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:36 am

Dave Brown wrote:We have completed our survey of every agency in Canada and what they carry for firearm and calibre.


And by "survey of every agency in Canada" he means that he asked us in the police only section.

I kid. Because I love Dave's moustache.
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Re: 9 mm. - 40 or 45?

Postby Dave Brown » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:39 pm

You just love it because it tickles when we kiss.

Oh ... I wasn't supposed to say that was I?


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