City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

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DonutMan
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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby DonutMan » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:27 pm

bcw wrote:
Von wrote:
bcw wrote:There are arrest authority for Fraud in relations to fare under the CCC, but its only summary. Easy to prove if someone jumps a turnstile, but harder to prove for proof of payment depending on the circumstances. There are no arrest authroity under any municipal by-laws which are where most of the Transit enforcement lay charges under.


You could always arrest under TPA if you find people jumping turnstiles or entering through bus bays.


You are correct, sorry I should have been more detail when refering to "proof of payment". I'm referring to "proof of payment" system Go transit, Viva, and some TTC street car line which they currently have implemented where you just purchase a ticket and jump on the bus or train.

RemingtonSteel wrote:For the role that transit enforcement has - you really don`t require special constable status, MLEO is sufficient. Any by-law violation you enforce where they refuse to ID, just arrest under TPA for engage in prohibited - if it`s a violation of the transit bylaw, it`s obviously prohibited at the terminal. Alternatively, if they won`t cooperate you could just turf them under TPA. Additionally because it`s private property, they can arrest for any criminal offence they witness.

SCST status is nice to have as it prevents you having to call the cops to release the suspect you arrest but the job can still be done without it.


Arresting someone for failing to I.D for a by-law violation you are walking on a fine line..for TPA - prohibited activity the sign must be posted properly, I highly doubt any transit system has signs posted stating "Prohibited Activity-Refuse to I.D." For TPA, most utitlize it for Fail to leave when directed. Unfortunately, The judges in Ontario wants to see you eject in most incidents prior to arrest under TPA.


On transit systems outside of Ontario, I've seen signs on board trains and buses that say if you fail to ID if caught not having a valid ticket/fare you'll be arrested. That's not the whole purposes of the signs generally, the signs also state the powers of transit enforcement officers in general. Perhaps it's something they should look at locally.

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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby Jacky Boy » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:58 am

I put in for this as well, sounds like a great gig for the money!

If anyone hears back about an interview/testing please let us know.
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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby RemingtonSteel » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:53 am

bcw wrote:Arresting someone for failing to I.D for a by-law violation you are walking on a fine line..for TPA - prohibited activity the sign must be posted properly, I highly doubt any transit system has signs posted stating "Prohibited Activity-Refuse to I.D." For TPA, most utitlize it for Fail to leave when directed. Unfortunately, The judges in Ontario wants to see you eject in most incidents prior to arrest under TPA.


You wouldn't arrest for the fail to ID itself, you'd arrest for the offence (fail to produce proof of payment). There are signs on most transit properties I've been to that clearly state "You must provide proof of payment, you can't do ABCD on site etc."
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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby mack_silent » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:04 pm

I had a question about Special Constable status powers.

Most transit systems have a set of their own bylaws.
Would a S/C primarily enforce just these bylaws and the TPA, or would they also enforce criminal code/CDSA/MHA etc?

For example if someone assaulted a transit operator, would the S/C be more likely to:
A) Arrest on assault charge, give the person a form to appear, and release?
or
B) Arrest on bylaw/prohibited activity (for example, obstruction of operator), give a set fine, and release?
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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby DonutMan » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:16 am

mack_silent wrote:I had a question about Special Constable status powers.

Most transit systems have a set of their own bylaws.
Would a S/C primarily enforce just these bylaws and the TPA, or would they also enforce criminal code/CDSA/MHA etc?

For example if someone assaulted a transit operator, would the S/C be more likely to:
A) Arrest on assault charge, give the person a form to appear, and release?
or
B) Arrest on bylaw/prohibited activity (for example, obstruction of operator), give a set fine, and release?


Special Constables have full police powers while on-duty and within their stipulated jurisdiction. They also generally have full police powers in hot pursuit which originated within their stipulated jurisdiction. Think of a special constable as a police officer but they only have that status in specific areas (e.g. transport networks, university campuses etc).

They are entitled to enforce the CC/CDSA/MHA etc and will. The ones who don't are normally called 'provincial offenses officers' who will check fares or do parking enforcement. Transit S/Cs do not regularly enforce fares AFAIK.

In your given scenario, the answer is A.

Despite their powers, they aren't police officers under the Police Services Act in Ontario. However, they have police powers in their stipulated jurisdiction. To me it doesn't make sense, if you have police powers, regardless of jurisdictional limitations, you're a police officer but it is what it is :crazy:

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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby Haweater » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:13 am

DonutMan wrote:
mack_silent wrote:I had a question about Special Constable status powers.

Most transit systems have a set of their own bylaws.
Would a S/C primarily enforce just these bylaws and the TPA, or would they also enforce criminal code/CDSA/MHA etc?

For example if someone assaulted a transit operator, would the S/C be more likely to:
A) Arrest on assault charge, give the person a form to appear, and release?
or
B) Arrest on bylaw/prohibited activity (for example, obstruction of operator), give a set fine, and release?


Special Constables have full police powers while on-duty and within their stipulated jurisdiction. They also generally have full police powers in hot pursuit which originated within their stipulated jurisdiction. Think of a special constable as a police officer but they only have that status in specific areas (e.g. transport networks, university campuses etc).

They are entitled to enforce the CC/CDSA/MHA etc and will. The ones who don't are normally called 'provincial offenses officers' who will check fares or do parking enforcement. Transit S/Cs do not regularly enforce fares AFAIK.

In your given scenario, the answer is A.

Despite their powers, they aren't police officers under the Police Services Act in Ontario. However, they have police powers in their stipulated jurisdiction. To me it doesn't make sense, if you have police powers, regardless of jurisdictional limitations, you're a police officer but it is what it is :crazy:


I'd have to disagree with that. An enforcement position might share some authorities with police have but if your business model is that when an occurrence reaches a certain threshold you call the police, you're not the police, particularly if you aren't supposed to place yourself at risk to do the job, whereas the police can't choose to not respond to a call / incident.

I don't mean that as an insult or anything, it's just the way we're set up in Ontario.

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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby mack_silent » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:10 am

Thanks for the clarification DonutMan.
That's good to hear that the S/C's can enforce criminal code, as they probably see really interesting incidents daily.

Haweater you bring up a good point too.
It's all about teamwork and communication between the different levels of security/SC/Police/etc.
At every level, it's smart to proactively call for ample backup from needed resources. Safety first.
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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby DonutMan » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:53 pm

Haweater wrote:
DonutMan wrote:
mack_silent wrote:I had a question about Special Constable status powers.

Most transit systems have a set of their own bylaws.
Would a S/C primarily enforce just these bylaws and the TPA, or would they also enforce criminal code/CDSA/MHA etc?

For example if someone assaulted a transit operator, would the S/C be more likely to:
A) Arrest on assault charge, give the person a form to appear, and release?
or
B) Arrest on bylaw/prohibited activity (for example, obstruction of operator), give a set fine, and release?


Special Constables have full police powers while on-duty and within their stipulated jurisdiction. They also generally have full police powers in hot pursuit which originated within their stipulated jurisdiction. Think of a special constable as a police officer but they only have that status in specific areas (e.g. transport networks, university campuses etc).

They are entitled to enforce the CC/CDSA/MHA etc and will. The ones who don't are normally called 'provincial offenses officers' who will check fares or do parking enforcement. Transit S/Cs do not regularly enforce fares AFAIK.

In your given scenario, the answer is A.

Despite their powers, they aren't police officers under the Police Services Act in Ontario. However, they have police powers in their stipulated jurisdiction. To me it doesn't make sense, if you have police powers, regardless of jurisdictional limitations, you're a police officer but it is what it is :crazy:


I'd have to disagree with that. An enforcement position might share some authorities with police have but if your business model is that when an occurrence reaches a certain threshold you call the police, you're not the police, particularly if you aren't supposed to place yourself at risk to do the job, whereas the police can't choose to not respond to a call / incident.

I don't mean that as an insult or anything, it's just the way we're set up in Ontario.


I'm not entirely sure if special constables have a duty to respond like police officers. I do believe they have a duty of care civilly under tort law however in their stipulated jurisdiction as would security guards.

In my opinion, this is merely my personal opinion, transit police and campus police are police officers to me. They carry UoF tools, more than a security guard is entitled to, and can make arrests, write tickets and issue summons like police officers can. They also respond to emergencies and radio runs like their municipal and provincial police counterparts do and have similar duties.That makes them, in my head, police officers. Once again, my personal opinion, everyone is entitled to agree or disagree with me!

Would I refer to myself as a police officer? Well, no because the law in Ontario dictates otherwise and that would be impersonation.

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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby DonutMan » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:09 pm

mack_silent wrote:Thanks for the clarification DonutMan.
That's good to hear that the S/C's can enforce criminal code, as they probably see really interesting incidents daily.
.


I don't know about that one...

I have worked campuses and I can ensure you 90% of your week is mind numbing boring. Locking and unlocking buildings, giving directions to students or visitors, opening locked doors to allow students to retrieve items, checking ID cards in the library, bandaging scraped knees, stolen property reports, responding to false building alarms and enforcing rules like no skateboarding.

Very very rarely does anything interesting happen. I think the most interesting thing which happened was the municipal police doing active shooters drills on campus with us. Occasionally you might get called to a fight in progress or a distress button after a student is being aggressive to a staff member but they aren't really interesting most of the time. Dealing with bike thieves can be interesting but really it becomes repetitive after awhile.

Campus is pretty much all customer service these days and de-escalation of situations. You spend a lot of your shift talking to students, staff and visitors. There is also a lot of mental health cases, you need to know how to build rapport and listen to vulnerable students and get them the help they need.

Campus is very personal. Students and staff knew me by name, I had frequent interactions with the same individuals weekly (in a good way, mostly).

The hazing shenanigans can be interesting but in a weird way. Like the naked runs through campus yearly. You got to stop people from taking photos of it. They tried to ban the run, ha ha goodluck with that.

Have never personally responded to a sexual assault. They are common. To me, it would be traumatic to respond to one because it would pain me to have someone who went through that in front if me. I just don't like people being upset and hurt.

Drug usage can be fun. Laughs can be had if you catch students smoking dope on rooftops and make up a white lie that there's a rooftop camera in that spot.

Campuses are generally low crime. Violent crime uncommon, thefts common.

Transit may be interesting. Get a lot of rough clientèle on public transport.

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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby dt13 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:34 pm

Have calls/e-mails gone out for testing yet? Wish they sent a "No Thank You" e-mail to those they don't want.

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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby Von » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:41 pm

DonutMan wrote: Transit S/Cs do not regularly enforce fares AFAIK.


Depends on the agency.

At the TTC, Transit Enforcement's Specials will do fare enforcement if they see violations happen, but they're more focused on proactive patrolling & responding to emergencies on the subway network. They have Fare Inspectors do conduct fare enforcement on the streetcar network which is POP.

GO Transit Safety does a fair bit of fare enforcement as well, but I believe their Customer Attendants do the bulk of it.
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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby RBSB15 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:24 pm

dt13 wrote:Have calls/e-mails gone out for testing yet? Wish they sent a "No Thank You" e-mail to those they don't want.


They haven't sent emails yet from what I know. The city takes a long time to get back to you. We should start receiving emails by months end or early March.

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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby bcw » Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:04 pm

RemingtonSteel wrote:
bcw wrote:Arresting someone for failing to I.D for a by-law violation you are walking on a fine line..for TPA - prohibited activity the sign must be posted properly, I highly doubt any transit system has signs posted stating "Prohibited Activity-Refuse to I.D." For TPA, most utitlize it for Fail to leave when directed. Unfortunately, The judges in Ontario wants to see you eject in most incidents prior to arrest under TPA.


You wouldn't arrest for the fail to ID itself, you'd arrest for the offence (fail to produce proof of payment). There are signs on most transit properties I've been to that clearly state "You must provide proof of payment, you can't do ABCD on site etc."


Fail to show proof of payment is a by-law offence not a criminal offence. Fraud transportation is a summary offence and is very specific on how it can be enforced. If someone purchased their ticket, but actually lost the ticket there is no intent to de-fraud the use of the transportation they are using; although they would be in violation of the by-law. Like I said by-law violation do not have arrest authority for fail to I.D like L.L.A. My main point is to make sure you have your facts right prior to an arrest. If you depend on the fact the individual did not show you "proof of payment" for your arrest and just providing you I.D you can see yourself having a charter case against you..S/C or P/C..

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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby davi0531 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:08 am

Anyone have any information on how Part time works with this position? are there guaranteed hours? 12 hour shifts? Pay in LEU of Benefits etc?

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Re: City of Mississauga - Transit Enforcement

Postby Jacky Boy » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:21 am

Just an update for those who applied, they have started the interviewing process.
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