RCMP Career Management Manual

Discussion regarding human resource management.

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jholtzman
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RCMP Career Management Manual

Postby jholtzman » Sat May 19, 2018 1:22 am

Hello,

From what I understand, the RCMP CMM is a publicly accessible document, but I'm having a heck of a time finding a copy. I requested through ATIP almost 90 days ago and did speak to someone at the 60-day mark but was told they are really back-logged. She had actually received my package but at that time it had to still go through another department before it got sent to me, and I have a time-sensitive issue that requires this document. There must be someone out there who has a copy of it? I am looking specifically for the section on Relocation/Transfer Policies and Procedures. If anyone can please help me asap I would be eternally grateful!!! :)

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Pete Broccolo
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Re: RCMP Career Management Manual

Postby Pete Broccolo » Sat May 19, 2018 9:08 am

jholtzman wrote:Hello,

From what I understand, the RCMP CMM is a publicly accessible document, but I'm having a heck of a time finding a copy. I requested through ATIP almost 90 days ago and did speak to someone at the 60-day mark but was told they are really back-logged. She had actually received my package but at that time it had to still go through another department before it got sent to me, and I have a time-sensitive issue that requires this document. There must be someone out there who has a copy of it? I am looking specifically for the section on Relocation/Transfer Policies and Procedures. If anyone can please help me asap I would be eternally grateful!!! :)
No non-operational request response by the Force will ever be quick, so you may be hitting the time-wall before seeing a package back.
If this a situation of comparing your Agency's benefits package vs the RCMP's there had to be a better way than ATIP.
If this is a Police Foundations project, you may need to switch your report to illustrating how frustrating it is for an outsider to deal with the RCMP.
What is this for?
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"F" Div - 1976-05-04 / end (GD & HP / RTS)
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Re: RCMP Career Management Manual

Postby jholtzman » Sat May 19, 2018 12:43 pm

It's for a court case. Trial starts a week from Monday, and I need to prove the possibility of a transfer. I don't need to present one on a silver platter, but I do need to prove the inevitability and possibility to transfer to a different province (E div to O div). Having a list of the different ways a transfer is done is also helpful. The policies and procedures for transfers - compassionate, lateral, promotional, into specialized units, etc. I know myself but need something official (I am not the member in this case so it's hard to access this stuff now). My children's father is the member.

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Re: RCMP Career Management Manual

Postby Pete Broccolo » Sat May 19, 2018 9:52 pm

jholtzman wrote:It's for a court case. Trial starts a week from Monday, and I need to prove the possibility of a transfer. I don't need to present one on a silver platter, but I do need to prove the inevitability and possibility to transfer to a different province (E div to O div). Having a list of the different ways a transfer is done is also helpful. The policies and procedures for transfers - compassionate, lateral, promotional, into specialized units, etc. I know myself but need something official (I am not the member in this case so it's hard to access this stuff now). My children's father is the member.
Your lawyer should have done this a LONG time ago for you.
#32936 - Cst - RCMP - 1975-10-27 / 2010-12-29
"F" Div - 1976-05-04 / end (GD & HP / RTS)
Proud Dad of #54266 - RCMP - 2007-02-12 / date
RCMP Vets Assoc - Regina Div member
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Re: RCMP Career Management Manual

Postby VanSmack » Sun May 20, 2018 12:00 am

Not only that, but telling a judge that the RCMP might move your children's father across the country at a moments notice without any consideration for his kids and a (potential) shared custody agreement is not accurate.
When people get too chummy with me, I like to call them by the wrong name to let them know I don’t really care about them.

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Re: RCMP Career Management Manual

Postby jholtzman » Sun May 20, 2018 1:05 am

Pete Broccolo wrote:
jholtzman wrote:It's for a court case. Trial starts a week from Monday, and I need to prove the possibility of a transfer. I don't need to present one on a silver platter, but I do need to prove the inevitability and possibility to transfer to a different province (E div to O div). Having a list of the different ways a transfer is done is also helpful. The policies and procedures for transfers - compassionate, lateral, promotional, into specialized units, etc. I know myself but need something official (I am not the member in this case so it's hard to access this stuff now). My children's father is the member.
Your lawyer should have done this a LONG time ago for you.
I had already put the request through ATIP in February, not knowing that it would take a lot longer than the 30 days that it says on their website. My lawyer told me it would be way more cost effective for me to do it ($5 vs. who knows how many hundreds of dollars) and cost is a big factor for me. I tried.... now I am out of time and in need of the information.

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Re: RCMP Career Management Manual

Postby jholtzman » Sun May 20, 2018 1:19 am

VanSmack wrote:Not only that, but telling a judge that the RCMP might move your children's father across the country at a moments notice without any consideration for his kids and a (potential) shared custody agreement is not accurate.

It's definitely not a case of that... it is being in dire need of family support and giving my 5 children a much better quality of life, me being able to return to school to get a career to support my children (and unable to do so where we are), and best case scenario is having him transfer to where the kids and I can have that better quality of life. I need the information in that manual to prove the possibility and essentially the inevitability of a transfer so that we are not forced to stay somewhere that will be detrimental, especially when transfers eventually happen anyway. We have zero ties to where we currently are, and there is no point in making us suffer in poverty here when there is a much better quality of life out there for us. Proving that he has the ability to transfer to O div will be very helpful.

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Re: RCMP Career Management Manual

Postby VanSmack » Sun May 20, 2018 2:19 am

jholtzman wrote:
VanSmack wrote:Not only that, but telling a judge that the RCMP might move your children's father across the country at a moments notice without any consideration for his kids and a (potential) shared custody agreement is not accurate.

It's definitely not a case of that... it is being in dire need of family support and giving my 5 children a much better quality of life, me being able to return to school to get a career to support my children (and unable to do so where we are), and best case scenario is having him transfer to where the kids and I can have that better quality of life. I need the information in that manual to prove the possibility and essentially the inevitability of a transfer so that we are not forced to stay somewhere that will be detrimental, especially when transfers eventually happen anyway. We have zero ties to where we currently are, and there is no point in making us suffer in poverty here when there is a much better quality of life out there for us. Proving that he has the ability to transfer to O div will be very helpful.
In which case he should be able to obtain same from the RCMP Secure intranet and you wouldn’t need to go through an ATIP request.
When people get too chummy with me, I like to call them by the wrong name to let them know I don’t really care about them.

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Re: RCMP Career Management Manual

Postby jholtzman » Sun May 20, 2018 3:11 am

VanSmack wrote:
jholtzman wrote:
VanSmack wrote:Not only that, but telling a judge that the RCMP might move your children's father across the country at a moments notice without any consideration for his kids and a (potential) shared custody agreement is not accurate.

It's definitely not a case of that... it is being in dire need of family support and giving my 5 children a much better quality of life, me being able to return to school to get a career to support my children (and unable to do so where we are), and best case scenario is having him transfer to where the kids and I can have that better quality of life. I need the information in that manual to prove the possibility and essentially the inevitability of a transfer so that we are not forced to stay somewhere that will be detrimental, especially when transfers eventually happen anyway. We have zero ties to where we currently are, and there is no point in making us suffer in poverty here when there is a much better quality of life out there for us. Proving that he has the ability to transfer to O div will be very helpful.
In which case he should be able to obtain same from the RCMP Secure intranet and you wouldn’t need to go through an ATIP request.

I agree... but he is trying to tell the judge that the RCMP will never relocate him to O div, and I know this is not true. Even the one judge we saw prior to this trial said "I'm not buying that." But I'll need to prove that he will at least have the means to apply for transfers, and that transfers are a part of the RCMP career. His CO suggested that I put the request in to get this manual so that I have something tangible and official, and not just hearsay. There is no reason for my children's dad to make us stay here with zero family support/can't support ourselves, and not let us have better opportunities in life, especially when he won't be able to stay here forever himself (he's 10 years into his RCMP career so he has many transfers yet to come) but for whatever reason, he's trying.

I was just hoping there would be someone here who might be able to help since I'm out of time :(

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Re: RCMP Career Management Manual

Postby Pete Broccolo » Sun May 20, 2018 10:42 am

The reality is that he could be transferred ANYWHERE at any time. He could apply to become a Commissioned Officer once he gets to be a Cpl, or he could get seconded to INTERPOL...or patch-over to an ON Municipal PS.

Sounds like he is leaving you hanging and could playing you.

Good luck; the boss and I have 5 kids, so I sympathize with your situation.
#32936 - Cst - RCMP - 1975-10-27 / 2010-12-29
"F" Div - 1976-05-04 / end (GD & HP / RTS)
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Re: RCMP Career Management Manual

Postby jholtzman » Sun May 20, 2018 1:57 pm

Pete Broccolo wrote:The reality is that he could be transferred ANYWHERE at any time. He could apply to become a Commissioned Officer once he gets to be a Cpl, or he could get seconded to INTERPOL...or patch-over to an ON Municipal PS.

Sounds like he is leaving you hanging and could playing you.

Good luck; the boss and I have 5 kids, so I sympathize with your situation.

Thank you. Playing me is one way of putting it! Sooooo much more complicated than that though. It is entirely about control for him. I know these opportunities and possibilities exist, he is trying to say they do not, and trying to find loopholes. He refuses to see how detrimental it will be for the kids and I here, and will not put his kids best interests ahead of his own (never has). I'm sure the judge (who was Crown Counsel for 10+ years) will know how the RCMP works in terms of transfers. Extra evidence is always a good thing though! All I have that is official is what I can get from the Career section on the RCMP website and a quote directly from the CMM from an article from the External Review Committee that states mobility is a necessity of the job. Crossing my fingers it's enough! I know he *can* transfer to ON to stay near his children AND give them a better life, why he won't do whatever it takes to make it happen is beyond me.

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Re: RCMP Career Management Manual

Postby Pete Broccolo » Sun May 20, 2018 8:30 pm

jholtzman wrote:
Pete Broccolo wrote:The reality is that he could be transferred ANYWHERE at any time. He could apply to become a Commissioned Officer once he gets to be a Cpl, or he could get seconded to INTERPOL...or patch-over to an ON Municipal PS.

Sounds like he is leaving you hanging and could playing you.

Good luck; the boss and I have 5 kids, so I sympathize with your situation.
Thank you. Playing me is one way of putting it! Sooooo much more complicated than that though. It is entirely about control for him. I know these opportunities and possibilities exist, he is trying to say they do not, and trying to find loopholes. He refuses to see how detrimental it will be for the kids and I here, and will not put his kids best interests ahead of his own (never has). I'm sure the judge (who was Crown Counsel for 10+ years) will know how the RCMP works in terms of transfers. Extra evidence is always a good thing though! All I have that is official is what I can get from the Career section on the RCMP website and a quote directly from the CMM from an article from the External Review Committee that states mobility is a necessity of the job. Crossing my fingers it's enough! I know he *can* transfer to ON to stay near his children AND give them a better life, why he won't do whatever it takes to make it happen is beyond me.
Oh, that's a bit different. I thought he was trying to get AWAY from you and the kids.
Transferring to ON from any other Province COULD happen, and the Force MIGHT transfer him there, if you and the kids move there, but there is NO guarantee that the Force WOULD do that, even if he WANTED to do that.
Your lawyer should explore getting a Court order to garnishee your ex's RCMP wages.
#32936 - Cst - RCMP - 1975-10-27 / 2010-12-29
"F" Div - 1976-05-04 / end (GD & HP / RTS)
Proud Dad of #54266 - RCMP - 2007-02-12 / date
RCMP Vets Assoc - Regina Div member
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Re: RCMP Career Management Manual

Postby jholtzman » Wed May 23, 2018 11:37 am

Pete Broccolo wrote:
jholtzman wrote:
Pete Broccolo wrote:The reality is that he could be transferred ANYWHERE at any time. He could apply to become a Commissioned Officer once he gets to be a Cpl, or he could get seconded to INTERPOL...or patch-over to an ON Municipal PS.

Sounds like he is leaving you hanging and could playing you.

Good luck; the boss and I have 5 kids, so I sympathize with your situation.
Thank you. Playing me is one way of putting it! Sooooo much more complicated than that though. It is entirely about control for him. I know these opportunities and possibilities exist, he is trying to say they do not, and trying to find loopholes. He refuses to see how detrimental it will be for the kids and I here, and will not put his kids best interests ahead of his own (never has). I'm sure the judge (who was Crown Counsel for 10+ years) will know how the RCMP works in terms of transfers. Extra evidence is always a good thing though! All I have that is official is what I can get from the Career section on the RCMP website and a quote directly from the CMM from an article from the External Review Committee that states mobility is a necessity of the job. Crossing my fingers it's enough! I know he *can* transfer to ON to stay near his children AND give them a better life, why he won't do whatever it takes to make it happen is beyond me.
Oh, that's a bit different. I thought he was trying to get AWAY from you and the kids.
Transferring to ON from any other Province COULD happen, and the Force MIGHT transfer him there, if you and the kids move there, but there is NO guarantee that the Force WOULD do that, even if he WANTED to do that.
Your lawyer should explore getting a Court order to garnishee your ex's RCMP wages.

I have registered with FMEP for a poor track record of paying child support, wages being garnished is a step that FMEP can now take since he's now enrolled.

I definitely know there is always a possibility of a transfer. I think that's pretty common knowledge so I hope the judge will take from that what he needs to. It clearly states on the RCMP website under the Career section that mobility/transfers are a part of the job. The CMM would be just one more official document to prove the obvious. Just my luck it'll probably arrive right after the trial! :) I have talked with many, many spouses and members about transfers in general, and specifically to O div, and specifically due to children living in another province, and I know it can and does happen, but there are no guarantees and sometimes it hasn't happened. At this point I just need to prove the possibility. Ex has claimed he can get staffing to give him a signed letter stating he will never be transferred to O and I'm calling bs on that, as did the judge that we previously had in our case conference. There is no way that staffing would just close a door like that. He is trying to prevent the kids and I from having a much better quality of life, just because he thinks he can - and for what, 3 or 4 more years, tops? He won't be staying in this detachment forever (he has a long career left to go) and I will not follow him to wherever he gets transferred. The onus is on him to do what he needs to do to stay around his kids if that's what he wants, but we shouldn't suffer and not have a good quality of life, and have to struggle to survive. I made sacrifices for 10 years for him and his career. It's my turn to get back on my feet and provide for my children!

Trial begins on Monday..!


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