is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

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Re: is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

Postby Pete Broccolo » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:57 pm

VanSmack wrote:
Hoodwinkle wrote:Does the RCMP call their non-uniformed members detectives or investigators?
There is no detective designation in the RCMP, the term investigator is widely applied to a laundry list of positions, including uniformed patrol/general duty. There's no pay increase for being in a plainclothes position, either, but those spots aren't generally limited duration as they are in other services. There's pros and cons to both sides of the arguments for doing it either way.
The ONE exception, or at least several years ago, I remember hearing of a Detective Inspector somewhere in "C" Division. I could be wrong, or it could have been an Insp who was trying to burnish his position, or even a member of the media that did not know better. I thought it was QUITE stupid at the time.
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Re: is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

Postby VanSmack » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:42 pm

Pete Broccolo wrote:
VanSmack wrote:
Hoodwinkle wrote:Does the RCMP call their non-uniformed members detectives or investigators?
There is no detective designation in the RCMP, the term investigator is widely applied to a laundry list of positions, including uniformed patrol/general duty. There's no pay increase for being in a plainclothes position, either, but those spots aren't generally limited duration as they are in other services. There's pros and cons to both sides of the arguments for doing it either way.
The ONE exception, or at least several years ago, I remember hearing of a Detective Inspector somewhere in "C" Division. I could be wrong, or it could have been an Insp who was trying to burnish his position, or even a member of the media that did not know better. I thought it was QUITE stupid at the time.
It wasn't a one off thing, but also was not especially common outside of some very specialized financial crime positions. I don't even know if they still bother with that title anymore, and I'm pretty sure that the title didn't come with any additional pay or anything, more of a way to indicate a commissioned officer who actually is engaged in investigations beyond the typical management role most commissioned officers take. As was explained to me, it was a way to get members with extensive investigation experience as well as extensive additional financial designations to be on a pay scale more in line with what that training might be worth in other agencies. I don't know too many guys who would go through the pain of getting an MBA and CA designation as well as forensic accounting just to stay working for a cpl. or Sgt. salary when they can do considerably better in the private sector.
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Re: is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

Postby Pete Broccolo » Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:03 pm

Fair enough, but your description sounds more like the Integrated Market Integrity Team (and their fancy-schmancy motor home), and when I saw this (this may simply be my advanced age / reduced memory / still-rugged-handsomeness mumbling here) I think I MAY have even found it on HRMIS pre-IMIT.

Either way, I bow to VS' post - I shall now saddle up my unicorn and fly off to an undisclosed bar.
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Re: is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

Postby VanSmack » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:02 am

Pete Broccolo wrote:Fair enough, but your description sounds more like the Integrated Market Integrity Team (and their fancy-schmancy motor home), and when I saw this (this may simply be my advanced age / reduced memory / still-rugged-handsomeness mumbling here) I think I MAY have even found it on HRMIS pre-IMIT.

Either way, I bow to VS' post - I shall now saddle up my unicorn and fly off to an undisclosed bar.
One for the inspectors I knew with the detective tag on his business cards was in a market integrity unit, although it wasn't in C-div.

As for that motor home, about 10 years ago I had to spend a 12 hour shift overnight camped out in that thing at Bay and King in downtown Toronto assisting on scene continuity for a search warrant into one of the major banks. It's pretty sparse in terms of amenities inside, I'm not sure they use it enough to honestly justify having got it in the first place, but maybe they share it with someone else.
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Re: is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

Postby Bairdo » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:09 pm

Tango5 wrote:Around here > Plain Cloths, I haven't heard a reference as to Detectives yet. Neither I actually heard the term Investigator.

If anyone makes a reference to what they are is usually RM in Investigative Unit or Section.
They're all investigators for their respective units, plainclothes in and of itself means nothing aside from the fact they largely don't wear a uniform.
Tango5 wrote:The only short-time posting that I see around here would be GIS. I believe it's of 12 month rotation stunt.
The few that you're referring to make up only a small portion of GIS bodies.

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Re: is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

Postby Tango5 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:47 pm

Bairdo wrote:
Tango5 wrote:Around here > Plain Cloths, I haven't heard a reference as to Detectives yet. Neither I actually heard the term Investigator.

If anyone makes a reference to what they are is usually RM in Investigative Unit or Section.
They're all investigators for their respective units, plainclothes in and of itself means nothing aside from the fact they largely don't wear a uniform.
Tango5 wrote:The only short-time posting that I see around here would be GIS. I believe it's of 12 month rotation stunt.
The few that you're referring to make up only a small portion of GIS bodies.
I understand perfectly. Believe me, we are on the same page.

All I am saying that I don't hear anyone referring to 'them' as investigators but rather just members. Titles aren't being thrown around.

I never heard anyone saying that X is an investigator with CCIT but rather that X is a member in/with or he/she is CCIT or GIS.
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Re: is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

Postby VanSmack » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:20 am

Tango5 wrote:
I never heard anyone saying that X is an investigator with CCIT but rather that X is a member in/with or he/she is CCIT or GIS.
That's because it would be redundant in most cases because the overwhelming majority of positions for RMs within the Force are designated as investigators, it's literally on the HRMIS job code for pretty much any cadet graduating from Depot the day he or she gets a badge, so it's not really a rank so much as a description of the core function of police work that we're almost all engaged in.

Unless you're in an administrative position then it's generally assumed that you're to some degree an investigator, Traffic guys have it on their HRMIS job code, I'm not sure, but I think even guys in response-based support units like dog handlers and full time ERT team members are shown as investigators within their HR job profile description.
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Re: is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

Postby Tango5 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:27 am

Thanks VS. Exactly what I wanted to convey.
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Re: is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

Postby bunnel » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:35 pm

VanSmack wrote:
lostinTO wrote:alright that makes sense, so it's more a functional label of a particular role that an officer is holding at the time. I mistakingly assumed that it was step on a ladder in a sense. ie PC ---> DC ---> DET. If I am understanding you correctly it could be that, but PC to DC is a lateral move? Thanks for explaining that.
There is no stand alone "detective" rank, it would be D/Cst, D/Sgt, etc. One does not need to be a d/Cst to become a Sgt. There is an increase in pay while holding a position with a detective designation, but as I said, it's not a permanent appointment in the vast majority of cases.
That's not correct. In many Ontario services, Detective (in plainclothes) and Sergeant (in uniform) are lateral ranks, as are Detective Sergeant (in plainclothes) and Staff Sergeant (in uniform). Yes, it is confusing.

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Re: is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

Postby lostinTO » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:11 am

Which part is not correct ? PC to DC could be lateral ?
88)
bunnel wrote:
VanSmack wrote:
lostinTO wrote:alright that makes sense, so it's more a functional label of a particular role that an officer is holding at the time. I mistakingly assumed that it was step on a ladder in a sense. ie PC ---> DC ---> DET. If I am understanding you correctly it could be that, but PC to DC is a lateral move? Thanks for explaining that.
There is no stand alone "detective" rank, it would be D/Cst, D/Sgt, etc. One does not need to be a d/Cst to become a Sgt. There is an increase in pay while holding a position with a detective designation, but as I said, it's not a permanent appointment in the vast majority of cases.
That's not correct. In many Ontario services, Detective (in plainclothes) and Sergeant (in uniform) are lateral ranks, as are Detective Sergeant (in plainclothes) and Staff Sergeant (in uniform). Yes, it is confusing.

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Re: is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

Postby bunnel » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:17 pm

This is the part that's not correct:
There is no stand alone "detective" rank, it would be D/Cst, D/Sgt, etc.

There is a Detective rank (in many larger services, Toronto PS being one of them....but not all) that is lateral to Sergeant. Likewise, Detective Sergeant is the lateral to Staff Sergeant.

Also I know many Detective Constables that have been in that position for most, if not all of their careers. Again, it depends on the particular Service and of course, the individual officer.

Clear as mud? :D

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Re: is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

Postby TR » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:01 pm

In Toronto, the non-senior officer ranks are:

Constable / Plainclothes Constable. (Detective constable is not a recognized rank, but is unofficially widely used across the service.

Sergeant / Detective

Staff Sergeant / Detective Sergeant.


If someone calls themselves a detective constable, which mostly all plainclothes officers do, they are actually, officially, plainclothes police constables. There are many permement DC positions in Toronto, and many that are temporary.

Because DC is not an official rank, that is why there is no special badge for detective constables. Unlike detectives and detective sergeants who carry different badges than their uniform counterparts.

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Re: is a Detective Constable senior in rank to Constable

Postby Cage » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:05 pm

Same with CPS. Detective and Sergeant are equivalents, but that' where it ends. Both Det. and Sgt. promote to S/Sgt.


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