Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Discussion regarding human resource management.

Moderators: Respond Wayne, Pete Broccolo, opp2, CourtOfficer

User avatar
SHAMROCK
Grand Poobah
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:50 pm
Location: Hamilton

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby SHAMROCK » Mon May 18, 2009 10:59 pm

CourtOfficer wrote:Yep, and thankfully in Ontario they are kept to their intended duties. In our service everything from their duties to the amount of hours they're permitted to volunteer in a day is all governed by the collective agreement. Trust me, this program would NOT fly with an association. Has it been tried? Indeed it has in Ontario via expansion of the Special Constable program to include more operational responsibilities and it was quickly nipped in the bud.

CO
What kind of operational responsibilities was the service trying to have its Specials do?

User avatar
CourtOfficer
Site Admin
Posts: 19612
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Canada

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby CourtOfficer » Mon May 18, 2009 11:48 pm

SHAMROCK wrote:
CourtOfficer wrote:Yep, and thankfully in Ontario they are kept to their intended duties. In our service everything from their duties to the amount of hours they're permitted to volunteer in a day is all governed by the collective agreement. Trust me, this program would NOT fly with an association. Has it been tried? Indeed it has in Ontario via expansion of the Special Constable program to include more operational responsibilities and it was quickly nipped in the bud.

CO
What kind of operational responsibilities was the service trying to have its Specials do?
PM sent.

CO

User avatar
Bald Man
Super-Ultra-Mega Poobah
Posts: 6258
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:12 am

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby Bald Man » Tue May 19, 2009 5:31 am

CourtOfficer wrote:
SHAMROCK wrote:
CourtOfficer wrote:Yep, and thankfully in Ontario they are kept to their intended duties. In our service everything from their duties to the amount of hours they're permitted to volunteer in a day is all governed by the collective agreement. Trust me, this program would NOT fly with an association. Has it been tried? Indeed it has in Ontario via expansion of the Special Constable program to include more operational responsibilities and it was quickly nipped in the bud.

CO
What kind of operational responsibilities was the service trying to have its Specials do?
PM sent.

CO
I'm curious to know as well there CO. Our service as never tried to "expand our role" outside of what we have been doing since the early 1980's. I think we could be used more than what we presently are yet still working well within the scope of our appointed duties. Patrol would certainly benefit from our use. Although, we will be taking over finger printing and picture duties from ident in cells. I think most services either have S/Cst's or civilians already doing this.

OCCOP
Grand Poobah
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:59 pm

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby OCCOP » Wed May 27, 2009 11:03 am

Jim Street wrote:Wow. Is this still ongoing?

FordAve, at least tell us how you really feel. I'm assuming that you want or wish that auxiliaries had expanded duties, and that as an auxiliary yourself you feel that you are underutilized and need to have a larger policing role perhaps similar to the CSO.

As CO already said, the auxiliary role is one for doing the community relations and warm and fuzzy stuff along with obtaining some experience with policing.

This CSO program has simply been pointed out as a slippery slope which is a threat to REAL police jobs.
I've read the pages of comments and have to agree somewhat with both sides. What seems to be occurring is that police duties are not being fulfilled to the standard expected by the communities. One side is supporting the stop-gap measure that is the CSO and another is advocating for additional police officers.

This situation has been coming up for years in every province. Alberta went so far as to create quasi-police with the title of Sheriff and APO and CSO. In Ontario we are still on the old Special Constable system. The reason for the existance of these positions is due to a need. The need can be addressed in two ways; continue as it is with a two-tier law enforcement system consisting of non-police peace officers and police officers or a re-evaulation of the contract police system which has caused a lot of the problems.

Personally, I think that it would be better if we went back to a system of smaller municipal police services, supported by provincial and federal police. Communities the size of Surrey should have their own police, not use the RCMP because they are cheaper. There should be a reasonable population cap on the allowance of contract policing. Once they go beyond that there should be an expectation that a municipal police service is formed as they have the tax base to support one.

Let the Federal Police (RCMP) deal with specialized federal crime, threats to national security, cross-provincial crime, and cross-country warrant enforcement (enough with the bad guys taking vacations from their court dates by getting far enough away). Let them specialize in the area of forensics and other support areas to be the experts they are meant to be and have them provide their skills in assistance to municipal and provincial law enforcement. Allow the creation of provincial police services in areas with large numbers of rural communities, provincial highways (similar to a state police model).

The system evolved where smaller services were amalgamated into bigger services or replaced by contract policing. This was to save money but in many cases created an unstable system (where staffing is reduced or inconsistent due to transfers and lack of human resources) and community needs are not met. This has resulted in the creation of CSO's and APO's who should probably simply be either municipal or provincial police officers.

I know that the RCMP and OPP members do the best they can with what they have but I think that they are at the mercy of a population who are frustrated with the system.

I don't think increasing police officers in the current system would support the reduced costs that contract policing advertises and will likely not be supported. These CSO positions are a half-assed solution to dealing with the problems of the contract system. You either have to support a complete change in how we do policing (which would increase the number of police in these jurisdictions, just likely not in the RCMP or contract agencies uniform) or you have to live with the CSO's, Auxilliaries and Specials who do the job which allows the contract system to continue.

That's just my two-cents on the issue.
"He who loses control loses!"

User avatar
Delley
Veteran Member
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby Delley » Sun May 30, 2010 3:46 pm

I have to agree with OCCOP. (I know its a post from a year ago). In Alberta, it was just announced that Community Peace Officers will now have the ability to enforce Some Criminal Code. Namely Mischief under 5000 and Theft under 5000. These are called non-urgent community calls. As well as the authority to Arrest for outstanding CC warrants. A select number of Peace Officers already enforce a number of provincial Acts like the Traffic safety act and do preform Traffic stops so having these authorities is being viewed as a benefit for these powers. This has bee touted as a way to increase the availability of Regular Police Officers to deal with more serious criminal activity. Here in Alberta it is viewed as a proactive step forward in tiered policing and should open the Door for more authorities in the future.

For the CSO positions in BC, I am told that they have to qualify through the same process as a RM. It does not make sense to me. You have to go through the same process only to become a CSO, If it were me I would rather just become a regular member.

User avatar
scott90
Seasoned Member
Posts: 332
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Ontario

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby scott90 » Sun May 30, 2010 5:30 pm

They have this same sort of thing In England, although their Community Safety Constables aren't equipped with anything other than a cell phone.....apparently it has been nothing but a liability over their.
I guess we'll have to wait and see.......

copperandblue
Veteran Member
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:48 pm

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby copperandblue » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:22 pm

I think this whole thing is BS.

I am an Auxiliary because I want to help out in my community, and I love my current job and my lifestyle.

A CSO seems to be paid Auxiliary, which is something I am totally against. At least as an Auxiliary, I am always with a regular member.

My main question is this. In the article at the beginning of this post, they refer to "part-time auxiliary police". The word "Auxiliary Police" is something I have seen before, and something I am against. Why does the media refer to us as "police" when we clearly are not. Yes, we are Peace Officers, and we associate with the police in the work we do, but we do not "police". In a recent article in my hometown, they refer to us as "Auxiliary Police Officers", and it is this misconception that bothers me. I don't refer to myself as a police officer, and I think that programs like this whole CSO thing make the "line" way more fuzzy for the public. At least with Auxiliairy, we don't respond to calls ourselves, so there is no worry of stealing jobs.

My question is, why does the media refer to Auxiliary Constables as "Police", and why are they allowed to continue to do so?
Break the arm of the wicked and evil man; call him to account for his wickedness that would not be found out. Psalm 10:15

User avatar
Bald Man
Super-Ultra-Mega Poobah
Posts: 6258
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:12 am

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby Bald Man » Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:44 am

In Ontario Auxiliary officers are not peace officers and are only refered to as auxiliary members in the police act.

copperandblue
Veteran Member
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:48 pm

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby copperandblue » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:03 pm

yeah sorry, I am talking about the RCMP. In K division, the RCMP website calls it the "Auxiliary Police Program"

I just think that it is messed up.
Break the arm of the wicked and evil man; call him to account for his wickedness that would not be found out. Psalm 10:15

Tango5
King Poobah
Posts: 2105
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:34 am
Location: E Div

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby Tango5 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:45 pm

Copperandblue..

What's so wrong with using a term -- Auxiliary Police?

Not only Media and RCMP uses the term but also Toronto Police, Peel and OPP to name a few.

You are a Auxiliary Member in a Police Force/Service thus being a member of that force in one or other capacity. Auxiliary Member = Auxiliary Police Member. ( do not confuse with Regular Police Member )
I have a feeling you are focusing too much on the word Police.
No Auxiliary will ever tell you they are POLICE OFFICERS cause we are NOT, but they will tell you they are Auxiliary to a Police Officer therefore the term used --- Auxiliary Police.

I wonder, looks like you are totally against tying the word Police to Aux Member, yet you went through training hopefully same as I did.

During the Use of Force, how did you refer to yourself? - an Auxiliary Member?

Did you say? :
This is the Auxiliary Member a volunteer with RCMP, you are under arrest, I want you to turn around, do it now, and then read them and inform them of their rights as a volunteer....., during practicing Arrests?

During Scenarios?, Practicing ( 10s of ) :

Simulated 10-11s --- this is an Auxiliary Member, I need your DL and proof of Insurance?
Domestics --- this is a volunteer with RCMP, open the door!!
Simulated 'code 5' take downs --- This is a civilian, get down, get down now!! ?
Searches for weapons and drugs? --- as an unpaid civilian?

DID you use the term AUXILIARY or POLICE?
We use to get shit from PEPSI instructors for using Auxiliary term during those.

Also, you say that you are always with an RM, always or most times?

Any way, makes me sick to see that you would complain at a service that trained you. YOU are a PART of it, be proud.
ex :mrgreen: EDiv RCMP A/Constable
Traffic.. still Rocks.

... For the Grammar Police, get off my back, I wasn't born here.

User avatar
argyll
Moderator
Posts: 8223
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:49 pm
Location: on the beach

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby argyll » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:28 pm

Podhalan wrote: Auxiliary to a Police Officer therefore the term used --- Auxiliary Police.

.
Sounds like from The Office on TV where Dwight calls himself Assistant Regional Manager instead of Assistant to the Regional Manager
The test of a gentlemen is how he treats someone who can be of no possible use to him.

copperandblue
Veteran Member
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:48 pm

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby copperandblue » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:52 pm

Pod,

First off bud, pull the baton out of your ass. When you feel like talking like a normal guy, get back to me.

Second, don't be an idiot. Of course I say "Police" in the heat of the moment, as I was trained. But that does not make me Auxiliary Police.

Civillian members don't call themselves "Front Desk Police". Anyways bud, if you want to be a cop, do it. I am proud to be with the RCMP. It is so amazing. Don't ever accuse me of not being proud. I am simply pointing out a few things, and remember, I am here in Cowboy K-Division and you are over there in communist country-NDP/liberal land. I have a feeling that I have much looser reigns than you do for what I am allowed to take part in, so don't pretend for a second that you're out there flying solo and busting heads.

Stop talking already...you're making Poland look bad...Which is really hard to do :swords:
Break the arm of the wicked and evil man; call him to account for his wickedness that would not be found out. Psalm 10:15

Tango5
King Poobah
Posts: 2105
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:34 am
Location: E Div

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby Tango5 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:20 pm

OK THAN, I guess all the Services using the term Auxiliary Police on their web pages are sort of idiots. yep, you are right. :roll:

So in your opinion what an Auxiliary Police is vs Auxiliary member?
ex :mrgreen: EDiv RCMP A/Constable
Traffic.. still Rocks.

... For the Grammar Police, get off my back, I wasn't born here.

Tango5
King Poobah
Posts: 2105
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:34 am
Location: E Div

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby Tango5 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:28 pm

argyll wrote:
Podhalan wrote: Auxiliary to a Police Officer therefore the term used --- Auxiliary Police.

.
Sounds like from The Office on TV where Dwight calls himself Assistant Regional Manager instead of Assistant to the Regional Manager
For the lack of better term, yes.
ex :mrgreen: EDiv RCMP A/Constable
Traffic.. still Rocks.

... For the Grammar Police, get off my back, I wasn't born here.

copperandblue
Veteran Member
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:48 pm

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Postby copperandblue » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:39 pm

Pod, you're not making any sense.

The crackhead that we arrested last night made more sense than you, and he was passed out.

Chill out hardcore!
Break the arm of the wicked and evil man; call him to account for his wickedness that would not be found out. Psalm 10:15


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests