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Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 8:01 pm
by gotchya
el_prez wrote:Image

Those armbands look like something a two year old would wear when swimming.

Oh, the waterwings.
Image

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 8:05 pm
by Jim Street
th wrote:The CSOs are basically paid, full-time auxiliaries. In fact, most of the CSOs were hired out of the Auxiliary program.


So very, very wrong.

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:16 pm
by CourtOfficer
A slippery slope...

One of their duties is to "investigate B&E's"? Last I checked that involved chasing property all over hell's half acre, interrogating suspects, etc... You want someone with three weeks training and no gun to do that?

Any department with an association would have prevented this from seeing the light of day.

CO

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:52 pm
by Mark S
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that the "investigation" they'll be doing is attending late-reported B&Es to take the report and maybe seize some evidence at the scene. But, you never know. You're right, its a slippery slope.

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:19 pm
by Jim Street
We have a policy wherein if the b & e When a call is made, dispatch will give some advice like not to touch anything that may be printable or whatever. However, that's hardly piece of mind for the homeowner and they have to wait 12-24 hours for a police officer to come by.

Now you're going to have some guy in a hybrid police uniform, no training and experience come to a regular joe or norma's house taking a report and gathering any evidence? They're obviously not going to be doing anything except forwarding the information on to an investigator but it's still stupid.

They're paying these people to do the jobs of cops when they could be used in a support function and/or use the money to pay for MORE COPS. Slippery slope indeed and no association would stand for it, I don't think.

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:30 pm
by three-six
Jim Street wrote:We have a policy wherein if the b & e When a call is made, dispatch will give some advice like not to touch anything that may be printable or whatever. However, that's hardly piece of mind for the homeowner and they have to wait 12-24 hours for a police officer to come by.

Now you're going to have some guy in a hybrid police uniform, no training and experience come to a regular joe or norma's house taking a report and gathering any evidence? They're obviously not going to be doing anything except forwarding the information on to an investigator but it's still stupid.

They're paying these people to do the jobs of cops when they could be used in a support function and/or use the money to pay for MORE COPS. Slippery slope indeed and no association would stand for it, I don't think.


You bring up a very good point Jim. Why not put these extra dollars towards more police officers rather than "Community Safety Officers"? I know for a fact that I would rather have a cop show up and investigate than a "Community Safety Officer". The moment I would see those red armbands, I would shut that door so fast... :roll:

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 6:47 pm
by FordAve
It is because of the position that police associations have taken against auxiliaries, this has come about. The unions have worked so hard to limit the role of auxiliaries, that they have become pretty much in-effective. To compensate for this, the Community Safety Officer program was created.

British police unions fought the same battle against their auxiliary police and the same situation occurred. They now have a full blown CSO program. Police unions in Britain have come to realize that auxiliaires are not a threat to police jobs.

Most auxiliaires do not support the CSO position. It would be in the best interests of Canadian Police unions to work with auxiliaries and not against them.

CourtOfficer wrote:A slippery slope...

Any department with an association would have prevented this from seeing the light of day.

CO


Have a look at what has occurred in Britain. I know that police unions have a lot of power around dictating public policy, but the reality is if our government decides to move forward with the CSO program, there is nothing the associations can do about it.

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 7:22 pm
by Jim Street
Auxiliaries are to be used in a support function using volunteers from the community to support the regular membership.

Auxiliaries, used in the proper capacity in such a way as I mentioned, are not a threat to police jobs. This CSO program however, is.

There is no question that Auxiliaries roles are limited. As they should be.

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 7:24 pm
by th
FordAve wrote:It is because of the position that police associations have taken against auxiliaries, this has come about. The unions have worked so hard to limit the role of auxiliaries, that they have become pretty much in-effective. To compensate for this, the Community Safety Officer program was created.

British police unions fought the same battle against their auxiliary police and the same situation occurred. They now have a full blown CSO program. Police unions in Britain have come to realize that auxiliaires are not a threat to police jobs.

Most auxiliaires do not support the CSO position. It would be in the best interests of Canadian Police unions to work with auxiliaries and not against them.

CourtOfficer wrote:A slippery slope...

Any department with an association would have prevented this from seeing the light of day.

CO


Have a look at what has occurred in Britain. I know that police unions have a lot of power around dictating public policy, but the reality is if our government decides to move forward with the CSO program, there is nothing the associations can do about it.

You do realize that the RCMP doesn't have a union or an association, right? And that none of the other police services in the province that have unions have a program like this, right? So really your union conspiracy against unpaid, under-trained, under-screened volunteers really doesn't hold any water.

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:30 pm
by dira necessitas
Those kind of look like jump wings above that guy's left pocket...

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:47 pm
by CourtOfficer
FordAve wrote:It is because of the position that police associations have taken against auxiliaries, this has come about. The unions have worked so hard to limit the role of auxiliaries, that they have become pretty much in-effective. To compensate for this, the Community Safety Officer program was created.

British police unions fought the same battle against their auxiliary police and the same situation occurred. They now have a full blown CSO program. Police unions in Britain have come to realize that auxiliaires are not a threat to police jobs.

Most auxiliaires do not support the CSO position. It would be in the best interests of Canadian Police unions to work with auxiliaries and not against them.

CourtOfficer wrote:A slippery slope...

Any department with an association would have prevented this from seeing the light of day.

CO


Have a look at what has occurred in Britain. I know that police unions have a lot of power around dictating public policy, but the reality is if our government decides to move forward with the CSO program, there is nothing the associations can do about it.


There's a lot that can be done, in fact. The creation of the position would require it be governed by the collective agreement in respect to duties, pay, etc... Without the cooperation of an association, the program would NEVER fly.

CO

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:04 pm
by FordAve
th wrote:
FordAve wrote:It is because of the position that police associations have taken against auxiliaries, this has come about. The unions have worked so hard to limit the role of auxiliaries, that they have become pretty much in-effective. To compensate for this, the Community Safety Officer program was created.

British police unions fought the same battle against their auxiliary police and the same situation occurred. They now have a full blown CSO program. Police unions in Britain have come to realize that auxiliaires are not a threat to police jobs.

Most auxiliaires do not support the CSO position. It would be in the best interests of Canadian Police unions to work with auxiliaries and not against them.

CourtOfficer wrote:A slippery slope...

Any department with an association would have prevented this from seeing the light of day.

CO


Have a look at what has occurred in Britain. I know that police unions have a lot of power around dictating public policy, but the reality is if our government decides to move forward with the CSO program, there is nothing the associations can do about it.

You do realize that the RCMP doesn't have a union or an association, right? And that none of the other police services in the province that have unions have a program like this, right? So really your union conspiracy against unpaid, under-trained, under-screened volunteers really doesn't hold any water.



There are a number of position papers re: auxiliaries that have been written by members of the Canadian Police Association, Association of Chiefs of Police, and the BC Mounted Police Association over the years. As many of them are long I'm not going to post them. Since all of these groups are lobbying government, they are the ones who are helping to create the policy that the auxiliary program is working with.

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:10 pm
by CourtOfficer
Yep, and thankfully in Ontario they are kept to their intended duties. In our service everything from their duties to the amount of hours they're permitted to volunteer in a day is all governed by the collective agreement. Trust me, this program would NOT fly with an association. Has it been tried? Indeed it has in Ontario via expansion of the Special Constable program to include more operational responsibilities and it was quickly nipped in the bud.

CO

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:10 pm
by FordAve
Jim Street wrote:Auxiliaries are to be used in a support function using volunteers from the community to support the regular membership.

Auxiliaries, used in the proper capacity in such a way as I mentioned, are not a threat to police jobs. This CSO program however, is.

There is no question that Auxiliaries roles are limited. As they should be.



If their role is so limited that they rendered in-effective then it's both a waste of taxpayers money and volunteers time. It also harms the communities that auxiliaries work in.

Re: Community Safety Officer- "E" Div

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:17 pm
by FordAve
CourtOfficer wrote:Yep, and thankfully in Ontario they are kept to their intended duties. In our service everything from their duties to the amount of hours they're permitted to volunteer in a day is all governed by the collective agreement. Trust me, this program would NOT fly with an association. Has it been tried? Indeed it has in Ontario via expansion of the Special Constable program to include more operational responsibilities and it was quickly nipped in the bud.

CO


I'm sorry CO but associations are not going to stop two-tiered policing. It is going to continue to grow and it would be in the best interest of the associations to work with and not against auxiliary constables.