muscle building question

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cgy1
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muscle building question

Postby cgy1 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:22 am

so i'm not really someone who likes to exercise, or does it all that often... but i have joined a gym, in the past week, and the personal trainer i've been working with has been telling me that one of the most important things i can do is eat a protein bar, or drink a protein shake AFTER your workout... where as i figured they were for energy during the work out... so what's the deal, how does body building actually work? what causes the gain of muscle mass, after lifting weight?

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Kopparoo2b
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Re: muscle building question

Postby Kopparoo2b » Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:12 am

Your Carbs are for energy...the Protein is for muscle/tissue repair....so your PT is right. Have a decent Carb meal about an hour and a half before workout, or a smaller carb 'snack" within 45 min - 1/2 hr before workout. Afterwards its important you include protein for your recovery, but depending on how much energy you just expended, it would be good to include some carbs as well just to replenish your energy.

If you're trying to load enough protein during the day, then you take it a few times (in a supplement drink usually, because its absorbed better in the body this way) during the day. Early a.m., mid afternoon, and then after workout, or before bed.

Really depends on where you're at with your workouts. It seems like you're just beginning, so you probably won't need too much at this point, but will need to increase as you get more involved.

In order for your muscle to build, it has to have time to recover and heal. That is the basics of muscle building. You use, then you rest appropriatly, and the protein helps your body do this. Google protein and muscle, you'll get lots of info...
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Re: muscle building question

Postby IainDaniel » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:33 am

The Basics of it are.

A proper workout routine and a diet with Calories above Maintenance and you will see muscle growth.

As Far as Macros Proteins and Fats are essential. Carbs Pre and Post workout can be a good idea. Pre- as an energy source. Post as an Insulin spike to shuttle nutrients to the muscles.

Hope that helps.


FYI Most protein bars are crap, and loaded with crap. And remember Protein shakes or Bars are a supplement to your diet. You can still use whole food sources in there place.

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Re: muscle building question

Postby Leeworthy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:27 pm

You ever notice when you work out hard your muscles hurt for a few days afterwards? Protein helps with this. Protein is what the muscles feed off of. If you work out hard and don't take protein afterwards your muscles are feeding of themselves, hence why you won't pack on the muscle mass you are looking for. Same thing goes for working out. DONT do a huge weight routine and then go run on the treadmill. It is a waste of time and won't help you build mass.

Just remember to buy a good protein, take a good multi-vitamin and don't worry about all the hype products that claim to make you "ripped".
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Re: muscle building question

Postby IainDaniel » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:55 pm

Muscle Soreness post workout typically referred to as DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) Protein will do little to prevent that. Yes Getting in Protein post workout is a smart recommendation. Also Muscles don't eat themselves there are other energy systems in the body that will feed them.


Also doing A run post weight training will have little impact on gaining muscle mass. The Weight training first is a good idea, as the glycogen stores are readily available to feed as an energy source. However Growth of the muscle will come down to total calories consumed being more then maintenance.
Last edited by IainDaniel on Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kopparoo2b
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Re: muscle building question

Postby Kopparoo2b » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:34 pm

Umm...Protein actually does help with muscle soreness. It helps repair/heal your tissues and whatever damage was done during the workout. Every time you workout, a bit of muscle damage is done, and the protein you ingest is part of the healing. Muscles grow in the healing stages.

This is common knowledge actually. The soreness quite often comes from from overuse. Its that simple. Protein helps your muscles recover. Rest helps your muscles recover, and good hydration (drink lots of water) helps you recover faster. Stick to some carbs before, and then after carbs and protein for "recovery".

Maybe talk to a nutritionist....get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak ;)
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Re: muscle building question

Postby Jim Street » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:39 pm

Your muscle breaks down if you're lifting enough weight for it to create small tears. Then the tears rebuild and grow back bigger.

Glycogen stores are lost when you're working out hard, carbs help to replenish that. Hence, post workout nutrition with a carb/protein mix.

It's a balance, 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight. If you're getting fat like love handles, it's due to insulin sensitivity and poor carb choices, like white bread and refined sugar.

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Re: muscle building question

Postby cgy1 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:47 pm

thanks for all the responses

kopparoo2b, you and Jim Street more or less said what i was thinking it was, but wasn't sure about... the act of exercising damages the muscle tissue, and the recovery of the muscles in the next day or 2, is when the muscle grows. plus that protein helps the muscle recover faster

usually, the protein i have after a workout, is some beef, either in the form of ground beef (lean) in a pasta dish, or a steak. Or i will have an egg or 2 (boiled or fried) if none of those options are available, i might gank a scoop of my roommate's diesel protein powder


as far as fat/love handles go, my legs are very lean, from what i can tell on the feel test, my legs are large, but solid, no giggle when i am flexing (the muscle moves a lot when it's relaxed) and there is nothing to pinch, period, back has a little bit of extra on it, nothing major, arms, both upper and lower are fairly lean, with a small layer of grabbable on it, neck is virtually none, chest has a little more than my back, love handles are there, but not big enough to be able to actually grab, my stomach is where i'm lacking... if i flex my abs, i can feel the solid muscle, but it's definitely got a thick layer of padding, i would say near my navel, it's close to an inch to an inch and a half thick... with a good handful available for grab :(

according to my pt, i have 24% body fat, and about 20.4% lean muscle, and if i were to go straight to loos the fat, i would lose more muscle mass than is worth while, so i should weight train to boost my muscle before trying to cardio down my fat

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Re: muscle building question

Postby devilwoman » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:07 am

I think that you need to ask your trainer about HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training). Its a great way to blast fat w/o chewing up muscle like long periods of steady state cardio does. Added bonuses, it revs up your metabolism for hours after the workout and it allows you to fit in an intense workout in a much shorter time.
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Re: muscle building question

Postby IainDaniel » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:17 am

Kopparoo2b wrote:Umm...Protein actually does help with muscle soreness. It helps repair/heal your tissues and whatever damage was done during the workout. Every time you workout, a bit of muscle damage is done, and the protein you ingest is part of the healing. Muscles grow in the healing stages.

This is common knowledge actually. The soreness quite often comes from from overuse. Its that simple. Protein helps your muscles recover. Rest helps your muscles recover, and good hydration (drink lots of water) helps you recover faster. Stick to some carbs before, and then after carbs and protein for "recovery".

Maybe talk to a nutritionist....get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak ;)


I am not denying that the Protein will help with repair to the micro trauma caused in the muscles. However I have never seen them alleviate or lessen the duration of DOMS post workout. Heck were consuming Protein all throughout the day.

Here are my suggestions for treatment of DOMS

Some type of Active Recovery
Contrast Showers - Hot and Cold.
SMF with a foam Roller
And obviously adequate rest.

Anything that will help increase bloodflow to the area is going to help alleviate the pain.

I assume you are a nutritionist Kopparoo2b?

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Re: muscle building question

Postby IainDaniel » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:24 am

cgy1 wrote:
usually, the protein i have after a workout, is some beef, either in the form of ground beef (lean) in a pasta dish, or a steak. Or i will have an egg or 2 (boiled or fried) if none of those options are available, i might gank a scoop of my roommate's diesel protein powder


There is nothing wrong with a whole protein source post workout. My suggestion would be to find something that the protein will be used more efficiently post workout. Like Eggwhites. Even Chicken would be a better option then beef. Not saying beef is a bad choice, but there are better options.


according to my pt, i have 24% body fat, and about 20.4% lean muscle, and if i were to go straight to loos the fat, i would lose more muscle mass than is worth while, so i should weight train to boost my muscle before trying to cardio down my fat


What happens to your body composition is going to more or less how your diet is laid out. That is the critical part. If you are eating adequate Calories you should be able to hold on to the muscle mass you already have. I am assuming you are relatively new to training? Assuming that then you should be able to make significant changes to your body composition, while holding onto and even increasing muscle mass.

Also as DW stated HIIT is a great option.

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Re: muscle building question

Postby Kopparoo2b » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:47 am

I assume you are a nutritionist Kopparoo2b


Never assume...and no I'm not. Thats why I said he/she should talk to a nutritionist at the end of the day. Everyone is different.

All proteins are not created equal right. So you have some that will exit your body quicker than others. Like Carbs. Liquid proteins (when its just the protein and nothing else) is more effective than a big meal mixed with carbs, protein, fat etc. When you're really serious about building muscle OR losing fat to keep your existing muscle but leaning out, you need to research things a bit because it really depends on your body type and what you're realistically capable of doing.

Protein should be actually taken Pre and Post for different reasons. Yes your normal diet should contain all this as well, but it won't be enough in the big picture. You can only eat so much protein at a time. As I said above, some Proteins are slow to exit your body (satisfy your hunger better, this is why protein is also used as a weight maintenance product), and some leave (are synthesized by ) your body faster, thus giving you quicker recovery and healing.

You can't get important relevent info on a forum such as this, but you CAN get some good insight, and enough info to know you should be talking to someone (nutritionist/PT) who is more knowledgeable about diet and muscle building. Its complicated because every "body" is so different. What works for you may not work for me.

The only thing that is "solid" is that in order for best energy and muscle building and recovery, you need to incorporate a good protein/carb fat ratio; you most likely won't be able to get it with "just " your diet unless you want to stay very low scale; and, if you are a beginner, you should talk to a nutritionist or equal.
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Re: muscle building question

Postby cgy1 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:14 am

sounds like some good advice all around, i will make sure to go have a chat with a nutritionalist, the trainer was a one time trial deal, mainly because she is smokin hot, and i like free stuff... lol the regiment she put me through on tuesday night was killer, started with a 3 minute ride on the bike for a warmup, keeping it above 90 rpm, then we did full range squats, a set of 20, then a good long length of lunges then some exercise i'm not familiar with the name of, but you lay on your back, on the ground, and put your feet on one of those big rubber balls, bring your back off the ground, so you're body is straight, and roll the ball towards you, bending your knees, 15 reps of that, and i did 3 sets total of that. next was the upper body, she called the first one "rowing" basically you grab ropes from the ceiling, and do like reverse pushups, while leaning way back, 15 of these, next was pushups, however, she game me a medicine ball to put under one hand, and to roll to the other hand between reps, sadly my legs were so weak from the lunges at this point, i couldn't hold plank position for more than about 1-2 seconds, so i had to do girl pushups :( then was a shoulder press, i didn't count the weight on the bar, the bar was the older style, thin steel bar, not the olympic style most people use now, and the plates were the sand/concrete filled plastic deals, the plates were about 8-10" across, and about 2" thick, there were 2 of these a side, plus 1 5lb plate a side, and the 30lb bar set of 15 of these, and of course 3 sets of this deal. next was abs, started with lower abs, laying on the bench, bringing your feet up, second was side, laying on your side, with your elbow down, bringing your hip off the ground, and then upper abs, crunches on the ball, but with a 45lb plate on my chest. the ab group was only 2 sets, although i forget the reps.

the whole workout was about 45 minutes, felt pretty good, but tired all night, today i am sore! mainly my legs... worked 7 hours tonight, and coming home, it took me about 5 minutes to get up the stairs, strangely enough, my abs feel just fine, and my arms only have a tiny bit of pain... my roommate was bugging me today, talking about how leg workouts usually take 2 days before you REALLY feel it... i'm not looking forward to tomorrow... there was a significant difference from when i came home from work, vs when i went to work too

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Re: muscle building question

Postby IainDaniel » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:22 am

Kopparoo2b wrote:
I assume you are a nutritionist Kopparoo2b


Never assume...and no I'm not. Thats why I said he/she should talk to a nutritionist at the end of the day. Everyone is different.



The assumption was also a question :p didn't want to throw all my eggs into the assumption basket :p

I think for the most part we are on the same page. The only thing I was discussing was the DOMS. and pain management.

Absolutely a nutritionist or even and RD could be a wise move in determining what his requirements are. But in the end as you said it is going to come down to some trial and error and determining how his body reacts to different protocols.

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Re: muscle building question

Postby Kopparoo2b » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:44 am

.....the trainer was a one time trial deal, mainly because she is smokin hot, and i like free stuff


Ahaha....typical :lol: :lol:

But as long as she kicked your #$#@!! with the workout then.....its all good..
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