Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Discussion, ideas, and questions in various types of police equipment, clothing and uniforms.
bcw
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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby bcw » Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:18 pm

YRP has the same practice as PEEL. YRP also sents a unit for a release at all incidents. TPS also varies depending on the officer in charge at the division the arrest was made. Most TPS Division don't have issues, with the exception of some that rarely deal with special constables.

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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby devilwoman » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:36 pm

Which is, forgive me if I am incorrect, the purpose of Special Constable status no? The ability to charge/release on their property (or area of authority) so Police Services are not burdened by having to respond and come and do it?


Yeah, you've nailed it. Peel just seems to want control. I've never understood it, or heard of the reasoning behind it. TPS would only get involved in the event the person under arrest was being held due to outstanding warrants, or for a show cause, or when conditions are needed. Which is how it rolls for their PRU officers. 14, 52, 51, 55, etc. all are very good with GO officers. 52 and 14 have the most exposure, due to Union and Exhibition, respectively, and are known to contact GO for CCTV requests and assistance on investigations.

HPS was always good with Mac....very forthcoming with CPIC returns and never got involved unless to offence was a threshold one (IE Sex assault, domestic, assault CBH, etc).
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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby Von » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:47 pm

Punisher-One wrote:
devilwoman wrote:As for Peel and specials, they are very odd. GO has the authority to criminally charge and release, but Peel refuses to provide print and court dates and will have a car go by instead. Very territorial. Other services are more than happy to let GO have the info and do their thing.


Which is, forgive me if I am incorrect, the purpose of Special Constable status no? The ability to charge/release on their property (or area of authority) so Police Services are not burdened by having to respond and come and do it?


**Not in any way, shape, or form am I bashing Peel - please do not infer or read that from my post. I have the utmost respect for Peel and it's Officers.**


I doubt the Peel officers are very fond of that arrangement either; it's more BS paperwork for them to do. It's probably an issue of someone who sits behind a desk not wanting the other kids to play in their sandbox.
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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby Harrison » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:39 pm

Alright, I'll try bumping this thread and see what happens.

I've been working as an animal control officer in the Lower Mainland of BC for about six months now. Something that I've noticed is that all animal control departments wear uniforms pretty much identical to the city Bylaw Departments, even if they are separate entities. Even contractors (ie, Commissionaires) wear the navy blue colour. I wonder why this is, and if there is any kind of regulation around it. Brown/green seems to be common for animal control in the US. For safety reasons, I would personally rather wear colours that clearly differentiate me from police. Especially when no animal control that I'm aware of wear any kind of vest. Does anyone know of any animal control departments in Canada that wear a colour other than navy blue? I'd be interested to see if any Canadian ACOs have adopted the brown/green look.

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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby Von » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:34 pm

Harrison wrote:Alright, I'll try bumping this thread and see what happens.

I've been working as an animal control officer in the Lower Mainland of BC for about six months now. Something that I've noticed is that all animal control departments wear uniforms pretty much identical to the city Bylaw Departments, even if they are separate entities. Even contractors (ie, Commissionaires) wear the navy blue colour. I wonder why this is, and if there is any kind of regulation around it. Brown/green seems to be common for animal control in the US. For safety reasons, I would personally rather wear colours that clearly differentiate me from police. Especially when no animal control that I'm aware of wear any kind of vest. Does anyone know of any animal control departments in Canada that wear a colour other than navy blue? I'd be interested to see if any Canadian ACOs have adopted the brown/green look.


There are By-Law Enforcement departments that do ACO work who are issued vests. I'm not sure about any strictly animal control departments who are issued vests, not in Canada at least, in the US some ACOs are very well equipped as far as vests, radios and UoF tools go.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke

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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby Harrison » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:10 pm

Von wrote:
Harrison wrote:Alright, I'll try bumping this thread and see what happens.

I've been working as an animal control officer in the Lower Mainland of BC for about six months now. Something that I've noticed is that all animal control departments wear uniforms pretty much identical to the city Bylaw Departments, even if they are separate entities. Even contractors (ie, Commissionaires) wear the navy blue colour. I wonder why this is, and if there is any kind of regulation around it. Brown/green seems to be common for animal control in the US. For safety reasons, I would personally rather wear colours that clearly differentiate me from police. Especially when no animal control that I'm aware of wear any kind of vest. Does anyone know of any animal control departments in Canada that wear a colour other than navy blue? I'd be interested to see if any Canadian ACOs have adopted the brown/green look.


There are By-Law Enforcement departments that do ACO work who are issued vests. I'm not sure about any strictly animal control departments who are issued vests, not in Canada at least, in the US some ACOs are very well equipped as far as vests, radios and UoF tools go.


Yeah, animal control is certainly one of those things that can differ greatly from municipality to municipality. You have ACOs that are prvoided with the full uniform/vests/radios, while you have others that are just given a polo shirt. Animal control work can differ greatly from shift to shift, but I think ACOs should as least be given options such as wearing a vest. I don't need a vest to pick up roadkill, or to catch a seagull with a broken wing. However, I wouldn't mind wearing a vest when I'm going onto/into that property of someone I've never met before to inspect the welfare of their animal. Or when I'm away from my van patrolling a park by myself on foot...you never know who is going to mistake me for a police officer at a distance. I don't have a radio. I have no 10-33 button. So I'm certainly in favour of vests/radios/UoF equipment and training for animal control. Even if it's just stuff that is kept in the van for the odd time where you feel you'll need it. Better to be safer than not, right?

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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby Punisher-One » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:26 pm

Von wrote:There are By-Law Enforcement departments that do ACO work who are issued vests. I'm not sure about any strictly animal control departments who are issued vests, not in Canada at least, in the US some ACOs are very well equipped as far as vests, radios and UoF tools go.


The Ontario SPCA Officers wear vests. They also carry cuffs and batons here.

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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby Von » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:41 pm

Punisher-One wrote:
Von wrote:There are By-Law Enforcement departments that do ACO work who are issued vests. I'm not sure about any strictly animal control departments who are issued vests, not in Canada at least, in the US some ACOs are very well equipped as far as vests, radios and UoF tools go.


The Ontario SPCA Officers wear vests. They also carry cuffs and batons here.


Spray too I believe, they also have police powers for the purposes of investigating/enforcing animal cruelty laws. Of course, they aren't ACOs, and are focused on CCC violations instead of by-laws.

They both could benefit from improved PPE though, here's a good article on the OPSCA: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/0 ... s-say.html
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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby inspector_gadget » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:37 pm

https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commis ... Update.pdf

Latest update for the TTC Fare Inspectors. POO's, every interaction they have is a negative interaction. Averaging at least 2 assaults on them a month. They ve only posted 6 months worth of stats and I've heard of it worsening.

So since they're going with this white shirt program, no patches, no epaulettes, no use of force... but they have vests...

They deal with much rougher clientele than GO does and GO now has patches and epaulettes for their guys at the very least but their special constables are only a couple of cars away. It's no secret that TTC TEO"s may have 1 or 2 cars to cover the whole city.

The original program, grey shirts, patches, epaulettes and use of force options for self protection.

Thoughts?

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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby Punisher-One » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:56 pm

inspector_gadget wrote:https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2016/December_20/Reports/15_Transit_Fare_Inspection_and_Enforcement_Model_Update.pdf

Latest update for the TTC Fare Inspectors. POO's, every interaction they have is a negative interaction. Averaging at least 2 assaults on them a month. They ve only posted 6 months worth of stats and I've heard of it worsening.

So since they're going with this white shirt program, no patches, no epaulettes, no use of force... but they have vests...

They deal with much rougher clientele than GO does and GO now has patches and epaulettes for their guys at the very least but their special constables are only a couple of cars away. It's no secret that TTC TEO"s may have 1 or 2 cars to cover the whole city.

The original program, grey shirts, patches, epaulettes and use of force options for self protection.

Thoughts?


Having any type of Law Enforcement, especially in a city such as Toronto, without the correct tools to protect themselves is the height of stupidity. Even more so when it is, as is the case here, for purely political reasons. Putting Officers of any stripe at risk because of political pandering is wrong.

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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby mark y » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:54 pm

Von wrote:There are By-Law Enforcement departments that do ACO work who are issued vests. I'm not sure about any strictly animal control departments who are issued vests, not in Canada at least, in the US some ACOs are very well equipped as far as vests, radios and UoF tools go.


There are a number of Bylaw and Animal Control agencies in BC who wear armour. Vancouver is one of them.

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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby Boxer Dogs » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:12 pm

Punisher-One wrote:
inspector_gadget wrote:https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2016/December_20/Reports/15_Transit_Fare_Inspection_and_Enforcement_Model_Update.pdf

Latest update for the TTC Fare Inspectors. POO's, every interaction they have is a negative interaction. Averaging at least 2 assaults on them a month. They ve only posted 6 months worth of stats and I've heard of it worsening.

So since they're going with this white shirt program, no patches, no epaulettes, no use of force... but they have vests...

They deal with much rougher clientele than GO does and GO now has patches and epaulettes for their guys at the very least but their special constables are only a couple of cars away. It's no secret that TTC TEO"s may have 1 or 2 cars to cover the whole city.

The original program, grey shirts, patches, epaulettes and use of force options for self protection.

Thoughts?


Having any type of Law Enforcement, especially in a city such as Toronto, without the correct tools to protect themselves is the height of stupidity. Even more so when it is, as is the case here, for purely political reasons. Putting Officers of any stripe at risk because of political pandering is wrong.


I agree 100%. If no defensive tools, they should at the very least be carrying cuffs.
My opinions are my own and do not reflect my agency.

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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby mack_silent » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:16 pm

Punisher-One wrote:Having any type of Law Enforcement, especially in a city such as Toronto, without the correct tools to protect themselves is the height of stupidity. Even more so when it is, as is the case here, for purely political reasons. Putting Officers of any stripe at risk because of political pandering is wrong.


Completely agree.
I think removing Batons or Handcuffs from TTC transit enforcement staff because "the public thinks it looks too authoritative" is silly.
Their role involves talking to 100's of people a day, requesting ID, and potentially issuing infractions. They should have the ability to protect themselves during their duties.

When I see security guards, by-law, parking enforcement, or any other roles wearing protective body armour, but lacking baton/handcuffs... it makes me wonder.
Even if only 1% of public interactions involve behavioural issues, such as aggressive or assaultive persons, then full UoF equipment needs to be issued.
It's always better to have the equipment available and not need it, rather than need it and not have it.
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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby Boxer Dogs » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:12 pm

mack_silent wrote:
Punisher-One wrote:Having any type of Law Enforcement, especially in a city such as Toronto, without the correct tools to protect themselves is the height of stupidity. Even more so when it is, as is the case here, for purely political reasons. Putting Officers of any stripe at risk because of political pandering is wrong.


Completely agree.
I think removing Batons or Handcuffs from TTC transit enforcement staff because "the public thinks it looks too authoritative" is silly.
Their role involves talking to 100's of people a day, requesting ID, and potentially issuing infractions. They should have the ability to protect themselves during their duties.

When I see security guards, by-law, parking enforcement, or any other roles wearing protective body armour, but lacking baton/handcuffs... it makes me wonder.
Even if only 1% of public interactions involve behavioural issues, such as aggressive or assaultive persons, then full UoF equipment needs to be issued.
It's always better to have the equipment available and not need it, rather than need it and not have it.


I agree and speak from experience (not TTC). Conducting any type of Transit Enforcement activities without at least cuffs is ridiculous. Having a baton as well would be preferable, but not even being able to safely take someone into custody if necessary is short sighted.
My opinions are my own and do not reflect my agency.

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Re: Your opinion - By-law/MLEO Uniforms, PPE and Vehicles

Postby Punisher-One » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:58 am

Forget taking someone into custody even, just the basic ability to have an option to protect oneself from assault. The same armed violent criminals and persons with potentially violent mental health issues that walk the streets of Toronto also ride the TTC, YRT, GO, etc. Special Constables, Fare Inspectors, and bylaw are dealing with these people as well. IMHO they need to have the ability to protect themselves as much as they can. The Police already have a lot on their plate and consequently are not always going to be around the corner. Unfortunately we can't rely on most members of the pubic as these days a lot of people would rather film an assault on a uniformed person with their phone and do nothing, not even call 911, than help that uniformed person out.

IMHO with the way of the world the time for arming up Special Constables has long been here. These Constables are screened and background checked like Police so there is really no reason they can't be trained up to snuff. Heck many Specials are paid better than I am so the paycheck isn't an issue either. That's just my opinion and it may be off topic.


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