What type of I.D. is appropriate?

Discussion, ideas, and questions in various types of police equipment, clothing and uniforms.
YYCADM
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What type of I.D. is appropriate?

Postby YYCADM » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:22 am

I'm a volunteer Search & Rescue Tech. Every Province & Territory in Canada has many, many volunteer SAR groups, all trained to a specific national training standard & qualification. These groups are in addition to any SAR groups provided by Municipal law enforcement agencies (not all agencies have them; in fact most don't). The RCMP have internal SAR groups on call in every Province, where in addition to regular duties respond as needed for SAR.

Increasingly in many Provinces, the RCMP have recognized the value of local, trained personnel for this function. They know the area, live in the area, are able to respond quickly, often in large numbers, and generally speaking have superior training specifically in SAR processes & protocols.

Often these groups are able to serve as a significant force multiplier, providing much needed manpower for not only lost persons, but in things like evidence searches, etc. The value is real; in one evidence search I participated in last year, a volunteer SAR tech found a critical piece of evidence in a suspicious death. It's worth pointing out this evidence was located in an area allegedly swept multiple times by lEO's and deemed "clean". Said members had then established and egress point directly over where the evidence was found.

All qualified SAR techs are issued with Provincial photo I.D. identifying them, and this ID is normally worn and clearly displayed at all times during a search. That said, I have not arrived at one, single search in the past 2 years that the Officer/s on perimeter scene protection looked at an ID card, recognized what it was, and allowed entry into the scene. Not one single search.

In addition to ID cards, most groups have highly visible, easy to identify uniforms, and are always carrying equipment thats SAR related, but it doesn't seem to matter; it usually takes 5 or 6 "incidents/disagreements" per search before team members are allowed access with just their ID.

Searches are most often very time sensitive, so the importance of being able to gain access quickly, especially for Hasty Teams, is critical, but what we have now doesn't cut it.

Does anyone have a viable suggestion as to what would work best to make that happen? Bear in mind that we are called OUT but the municipal Police or Fire Service, or the RCMP who ultimately have command/control of the activities.

In the U.S., a number of States issue badges to volunteer SAR tech who have fully completed training and are on full call-out status. In almost all cases, this has worked out quite well; is that the route needed in Canada? In the U.S. where everyone & his dog, literally, are issued badges for their jobs, that's a bit surprising, but it is what it is. My question is this; What do YOU in Canadian law enforcement think would be the correct approach?

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Re: What type of I.D. is appropriate?

Postby Adamv993 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:20 am

I would suggest you approach the local agencies you are dealing with and discuss this with them. If they are calling you, but their front line officers don't know who you are or recognize the ID you have, than they may need some education or introduction to you and your organization.

Just my two cents..

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Re: What type of I.D. is appropriate?

Postby A.T.R. » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:39 am

Wtf did I just read?


Thats a lot of chest puffing to ask a single question.
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Re: What type of I.D. is appropriate?

Postby Rob » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:14 pm

Why not just inform the officers on the perimeter the name of the Police Search Manager and request they contact the Search manager and obtain directions to the staging point for the search.
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Re: What type of I.D. is appropriate?

Postby GPZ » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:38 pm

If you're showing up at a crime scene and you get jammed up by a police officer who needs to establish exactly who you are and under what authority you're expecting entry before he or she allows you in, then that means the perimeter security is working exactly as it should, not that your ID card is deficient. The person in charge of the scene who is asking for your assistance should be organizing a muster point for the SAR crew and arranging for escorted access. If the search is time-sensitive, that is the scene commander's problem, and if the SAR team isn't getting access quickly enough, that is also their problem.

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Re: What type of I.D. is appropriate?

Postby mack_silent » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:27 pm

Why not ask your agency leader?

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Re: What type of I.D. is appropriate?

Postby TR » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:45 pm

Identify yourself to the perimeter officer and then wait for instructions.

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Re: What type of I.D. is appropriate?

Postby AHP309 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:19 am

I question your maturity to even carry any kind of badge. Coming onto a Law Enforcement site and making unsubstantiated claims about CPS/RCMP members for " allegedly swept multiple times by lEO's" is not going to give you the answer you want.

Don't complain when the replies you get treat you like an idiot......you earned it.

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Re: What type of I.D. is appropriate?

Postby wonka1990 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:02 pm

YYCADM wrote:
Searches are most often very time sensitive, so the importance of being able to gain access quickly, especially for Hasty Teams, is critical, but what we have now doesn't cut it.



Searches involving agencies other than Police SAR teams are typically not time sensitive at all.... Not in the sense that one wouldn't have time to put on issued uniform to be completely identifiable....
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Re: What type of I.D. is appropriate?

Postby Iceking007 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:33 am

GPZ +1

I've worked CASARA (central Alberta chapter) for a period and it was always smooth. Primarily we interacted with the military or 'solo', but were always in close relations with local law enforcement. We weren't just airborne (although I preferred to be) we also had ground SAR teams and worked hand in hand with the local ground SAR; but CASARA members were never issued provincial identification, we handled all authorization, training, and certification in house and never once was questioned for ID (even boarding military aircraft) although we WERE to always possess our civilian government issued photo identification, be it an operators listens, PAL, or what have you; I think it was just assumed that if you showed up somewhere at what ever godly hour, chances are you were supposed to be there.

We often worked on time sensitive situations as life and death were very real, the feedback we got from authority was always glad to have the volunteers. Redundant searching was part of the game, no one is perfect, but it's nice when you're the one that spots the tiniest of signs.
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Re: What type of I.D. is appropriate?

Postby Pete Broccolo » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:45 pm

YYCADM wrote:I'm a volunteer Search & Rescue Tech. Every Province & Territory in Canada has many, many volunteer SAR groups, all trained to a specific national training standard & qualification. These groups are in addition to any SAR groups provided by Municipal law enforcement agencies (not all agencies have them; in fact most don't). The RCMP have internal SAR groups on call in every Province, where in addition to regular duties respond as needed for SAR.

Increasingly in many Provinces, the RCMP have recognized the value of local, trained personnel for this function. They know the area, live in the area, are able to respond quickly, often in large numbers, and generally speaking have superior training specifically in SAR processes & protocols.

Often these groups are able to serve as a significant force multiplier, providing much needed manpower for not only lost persons, but in things like evidence searches, etc. The value is real; in one evidence search I participated in last year, a volunteer SAR tech found a critical piece of evidence in a suspicious death. It's worth pointing out this evidence was located in an area allegedly swept multiple times by lEO's and deemed "clean". Said members had then established and egress point directly over where the evidence was found.

All qualified SAR techs are issued with Provincial photo I.D. identifying them, and this ID is normally worn and clearly displayed at all times during a search. That said, I have not arrived at one, single search in the past 2 years that the Officer/s on perimeter scene protection looked at an ID card, recognized what it was, and allowed entry into the scene. Not one single search.

In addition to ID cards, most groups have highly visible, easy to identify uniforms, and are always carrying equipment thats SAR related, but it doesn't seem to matter; it usually takes 5 or 6 "incidents/disagreements" per search before team members are allowed access with just their ID.

Searches are most often very time sensitive, so the importance of being able to gain access quickly, especially for Hasty Teams, is critical, but what we have now doesn't cut it.

Does anyone have a viable suggestion as to what would work best to make that happen? Bear in mind that we are called OUT but the municipal Police or Fire Service, or the RCMP who ultimately have command/control of the activities.

In the U.S., a number of States issue badges to volunteer SAR tech who have fully completed training and are on full call-out status. In almost all cases, this has worked out quite well; is that the route needed in Canada? In the U.S. where everyone & his dog, literally, are issued badges for their jobs, that's a bit surprising, but it is what it is. My question is this; What do YOU in Canadian law enforcement think would be the correct approach?

Are you in charge if the SAR Unit that you are part of?

If not, have you spoken to your Unit Commander about these problems you have aparent lyrics encountered?

I was never involved in such incidents, but recall from RCMP "F" Division policy that there was quite a hierarchy to go through to get CASARA or GSAR involved.

Your question is NOT suitable for asking, being solved nor providing a definitive answer to on this forum. There us also a National SAR program that would have to get involved - but you knew that...right?!
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Re: What type of I.D. is appropriate?

Postby No 20 Year Medal » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:57 pm

I don't think you'll get an answer Pete, he/she hasn't been back for a year and half.
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