Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Discussion, ideas, and questions in various types of police equipment, clothing and uniforms.
AHP309
Seasoned Member
Posts: 371
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 12:32 pm
Location: Just outside 5 District
Contact:

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby AHP309 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:57 pm

All extremely valid points IndictableChaser, well said.

User avatar
mack_silent
Rookie Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:36 am
Contact:

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby mack_silent » Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:30 pm

Good points from IC.

Baton not only adds good reach length, but anyone striking with an arm/leg/weapon into the swing pattern is going to wish they hadn't.
KCCO. Wake up. Kick butt. Repeat.

AHP309
Seasoned Member
Posts: 371
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 12:32 pm
Location: Just outside 5 District
Contact:

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby AHP309 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:01 am

DonutMan wrote:There is also the concern a baton may not have an effect on someone on adrenaline or narcotics. You've now put yourself in a dangerous position as you're had to move within inches to strike with a baton where you can now be grabbed, grappled etc.


:banghead:

DonutMan
Rookie Member
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:23 pm

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby DonutMan » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:39 pm

IndictableChaser wrote:Baggy clothes? Winter jacket (remember this is Canada), risk of igniting flammable fluids rules the CEW out.


I'm not saying the CEW is 100% effective but it's a damn good tool and one of the safest UOF options available. In my opinion every P/C, S/C and anyone with a shred of police powers should be carrying one.

What if you have multiple shitheads? You could OC them but what about extreme cold once again (ya they're tested in freezing temps, but they have failed before in cold temps, especially if you're always outside)?


I would need more context about multiple shitheads. If multiple shitheads are fighting with one another, I don't see a point in rushing in there and start wailing on them with a baton or spray them. They have you outnumbered and if they're fighting each other than you should be happy to leave them to fight one another while separating them from innocents until backup arrives or they run out of steam then separate them. If multiple shitheads have turned on you, why not draw on them? While it is possible to engage multiple shitheads, they have the advantage of strength in numbers and you can be easily overwhelmed. Your odds of being overwhelmed increase if they're shitheads on drugs.

Furthermore then you run the risk of cross contam, especially inside, or simply running out of cop in a can. Then what (I'll tell you what, you go back to the baton if you don't have a taser)? I'm not saying any LEO or security personnel should get hit or take unnecessary risks, but if your'e in this line of work buck up get in there and shut it down instead of pussyfooting :boxer:


From my personal experience - strictly speaking about my personal experience - the baton can be effective but it's not my preferred go-to over other UOF tools. I consider it to be a last resort merely because you do need to get pretty close to someone to deliver an effective strike at 70-100% energy and you need to be spot on in your strike otherwise it may just bounce off them and leave them even more angrier.

You have someone high on drugs or ED? You could always break their legs/arms if the situation dictates it; or remember the disengage portion of the UOF wheel, and wait for backup.


Of course. I recall one specific incident where both his arms and legs needed to be dislocated to bring him under control. I don't wish that experience on anyone. This is why drugs should never be decriminalized :crazy:

Also, I measured my arms, combined with my baton length I have about 4.5 feet of "reach out and educate someone" ability, I'd say that's pretty damn good, and don't forget closed mode strikes. Inside the loo room at YYZ? Elevator? Subways? ETC


I'm not entirely sure if you could deliver an effective strike with your arm and baton fully extended away from your body. I'm not saying your wrong, I just don't frequently have an available person to test that theory on so I don't know if you can or not. Definitely something to practice though.

Tango5
Rookie Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:34 am
Location: E Div
Contact:

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby Tango5 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:28 pm

Use of force 'wheel' isn't a step by step "to do" or "go by" guide.
Use whatever option is reasonable to stop the threat. Think 'situational factors and officer perceptions'

Just so you know, I was sprayed, twice during use of force initial training (repeat in really close range) It did nothing to me.

Never mind someone high or highly motivated.

Edit:
Forget it, Not sure why I posted this. :)
... For the Grammar Police, get off my back, I wasn't born here.

User avatar
John014
Seasoned Member
Posts: 405
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:45 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby John014 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:09 pm

DonutMan wrote:
IndictableChaser wrote:



From my personal experience - strictly speaking about my personal experience - the baton can be effective but it's not my preferred go-to over other UOF tools. I consider it to be a last resort merely because you do need to get pretty close to someone to deliver an effective strike at 70-100% energy and you need to be spot on in your strike otherwise it may just bounce off them and leave them even more angrier.
.


Not to be a dick, but what other UOF tools do you have? Aren't you a security guard?
If you choose Law Enforcement you LOSE the right to be unfit.

Police Officer

User avatar
IndictableChaser
Veteran Member
Posts: 273
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:20 pm
Location: Halfway Between the Gutter and the Stars
Contact:

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby IndictableChaser » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:16 pm

John014 wrote:
DonutMan wrote:
IndictableChaser wrote:



From my personal experience - strictly speaking about my personal experience - the baton can be effective but it's not my preferred go-to over other UOF tools. I consider it to be a last resort merely because you do need to get pretty close to someone to deliver an effective strike at 70-100% energy and you need to be spot on in your strike otherwise it may just bounce off them and leave them even more angrier.
.


Not to be a dick, but what other UOF tools do you have? Aren't you a security guard?


I didn't write that, and I should have 2 other UOF tools.
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

User avatar
LAWDOG
Regular Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:53 pm
Location: Berta!
Contact:

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby LAWDOG » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:05 pm

Isn't an ASP a "Defensive Baton"? Meaning it's for defense, not offense?
"A good plan violently executed right now, is far better than a perfect plan executed next week." Gen. George S Patton

DonutMan
Rookie Member
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:23 pm

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby DonutMan » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:48 pm

Yes, they're considered defensive.

User avatar
Mr. Islander
Seasoned Member
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby Mr. Islander » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:18 pm

1. Why are we talking about UoF on the public side where shitrats can see?

2. Why are security guards talking about UoF and their "personal experience"? Last time I checked, security guards don't have OC, CEW, and definitely no sidearm.

DonutMan
Rookie Member
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:23 pm

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby DonutMan » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:43 pm

Mr. Islander wrote:1. Why are we talking about UoF on the public side where shitrats can see?

2. Why are security guards talking about UoF and their "personal experience"? Last time I checked, security guards don't have OC, CEW, and definitely no sidearm.


1. Nothing discussed in this thread remotely comes close to violating opsec. I also have a hard time believing your average rough clientèle looks online for information about how far a ASP reaches or when OC is effective or not. It doesn't really make a difference if they know it, now does it?

2. Funny enough I recall carrying seeing security guards with a firearm, OC, ASP and hinged handcuffs before. I'm not talking Brinks either.

User avatar
IndictableChaser
Veteran Member
Posts: 273
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:20 pm
Location: Halfway Between the Gutter and the Stars
Contact:

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby IndictableChaser » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:28 pm

Mr. Islander wrote:1. Why are we talking about UoF on the public side where shitrats can see?

2. Why are security guards talking about UoF and their "personal experience"? Last time I checked, security guards don't have OC, CEW, and definitely no sidearm.

I actually worked armed security in another life. Security , not armed guard like brinks. They do exist in Canada
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

User avatar
Mr. Islander
Seasoned Member
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby Mr. Islander » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:30 pm

DonutMan wrote:
Mr. Islander wrote:1. Why are we talking about UoF on the public side where shitrats can see?

2. Why are security guards talking about UoF and their "personal experience"? Last time I checked, security guards don't have OC, CEW, and definitely no sidearm.


1. Nothing discussed in this thread remotely comes close to violating opsec. I also have a hard time believing your average rough clientèle looks online for information about how far a ASP reaches or when OC is effective or not. It doesn't really make a difference if they know it, now does it?

2. Funny enough I recall carrying seeing security guards with a firearm, OC, ASP and hinged handcuffs before. I'm not talking Brinks either.


You don't think baddies research police tactics/UoF? LOL. Give your head a shake.

Example being...?

You seem to step out of your lanes with every post you make, and it seems you're continuing that trend. What do you do? Security?

DonutMan
Rookie Member
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:23 pm

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby DonutMan » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:44 pm

Armed security exists outside of cash in transit. There are many private sites being protected by armed security including government, police, military, museums etc. VIPs or events (e.g. artwork) can also be protected by armed security.

User avatar
Mr. Islander
Seasoned Member
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby Mr. Islander » Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:09 pm

DonutMan wrote:Armed security exists outside of cash in transit. There are many private sites being protected by armed security including government, police, military, museums etc. VIPs or events (e.g. artwork) can also be protected by armed security.


Thanks for the lesson, champ.

You still haven't told us what your job is.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest