Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Discussion, ideas, and questions in various types of police equipment, clothing and uniforms.
BSO20620
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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby BSO20620 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:28 pm

I went back and forth with open and closed cases. I prefer the closed mainly for retention and keep them from the elements. Where you wear your cuffs is up to the person. I wore cuffs for 5 years and I have them on the back of my belt. I keep them their because now it's muscle memory. No matter the situation I can deploy my handcuffs and stay focus on the situation.
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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby RedcapCrusader » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:18 pm

BSO20620 wrote:I went back and forth with open and closed cases. I prefer the closed mainly for retention and keep them from the elements. Where you wear your cuffs is up to the person. I wore cuffs for 5 years and I have them on the back of my belt. I keep them their because now it's muscle memory. No matter the situation I can deploy my handcuffs and stay focus on the situation.


But the moment you fall onto your back, you're going to get injured and be out of work. Sure, for a BSO cuffs behind the back might be okay, as for the most part you are static. Operationally, having ANY equipment at your back is a disaster waiting to happen. Not to mention when you're in a takedown or high adrenaline arrest, having to twist your shouder and torso to get your cuffs out is not the easiest thing in the world. I keep my cuffs on the front of my belt next to the buckle, opposite my mags on my weapon side; this way there's no fumbling or struggling to ge them out and I am not having to overextend my body.

Closed cases are a must. Anyone carrying open cases is again, disaster waiting to happen.

Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby IndictableChaser » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:35 pm

RedcapCrusader wrote:
BSO20620 wrote:I went back and forth with open and closed cases. I prefer the closed mainly for retention and keep them from the elements. Where you wear your cuffs is up to the person. I wore cuffs for 5 years and I have them on the back of my belt. I keep them their because now it's muscle memory. No matter the situation I can deploy my handcuffs and stay focus on the situation.


But the moment you fall onto your back, you're going to get injured and be out of work. Sure, for a BSO cuffs behind the back might be okay, as for the most part you are static. Operationally, having ANY equipment at your back is a disaster waiting to happen. Not to mention when you're in a takedown or high adrenaline arrest, having to twist your shouder and torso to get your cuffs out is not the easiest thing in the world. I keep my cuffs on the front of my belt next to the buckle, opposite my mags on my weapon side; this way there's no fumbling or struggling to ge them out and I am not having to overextend my body.

Closed cases are a must. Anyone carrying open cases is again, disaster waiting to happen.

Just my 2 cents.


My old man never had any issues with open/detective/bikini (whatever you wanna call them) style cases, and not just working CBSA.
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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby Jon. » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:25 am

I've had open cases for awhile now, my cuffs are used a lot, model 100's in front and model 1's in the back (I call them my child sized cuffs), and are in better shape than the ones we keep in the cell block indoor only, for prisoner transport.
Keep out of the pool and you'll be fine.

My 5946, asp, heck, my taser see just as much weather and are doing fine also.

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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby d.english » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:53 am

my 5946 looks like a boat anchor after a 10 hr shift...... ummmmm second thought it is a boat anchor. double cuff case left of the buckle model 1s and 100's, which require a lot of maintenance/oil to keep them silver and working properly, not to mention the spring plate in my spare mags.... that my friends grows rust at a great rate when exposed to the coastal elements,.....

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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby Jon. » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:43 pm

I suppose to be fair I'm in Saskatchewan, the land moisture forgot...

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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby DonutMan » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:09 pm

Have always used closed cuff and baton cases... Don't understand why anyone wants their ASP to be on their belt uncovered. The undesirables now know where your ASP is and it makes retention difficult.

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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby Von » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:22 am

DonutMan wrote:Have always used closed cuff and baton cases... Don't understand why anyone wants their ASP to be on their belt uncovered. The undesirables now know where your ASP is and it makes retention difficult.


That slows your baton draw a lot doesn't it?
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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby DonutMan » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:46 pm

Von wrote:
DonutMan wrote:Have always used closed cuff and baton cases... Don't understand why anyone wants their ASP to be on their belt uncovered. The undesirables now know where your ASP is and it makes retention difficult.


That slows your baton draw a lot doesn't it?


Depends on the baton holder, yeah. A proper closed one should have a button you can unsnap and draw the baton. Would only add maybe a second to your draw or less.

Regardless of the type of baton carrier you're using, someone grabs your baton, you would be justified in drawing your firearm. That's what I would personally do.

The consensus I've reached is the baton is your least used tool anyway as opposed to your CEW and OC. Guys I've spoken to have only ever drawn and deployed a baton 3-4 times in their whole career.

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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby IndictableChaser » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:04 am

DonutMan wrote:
Von wrote:
DonutMan wrote:Have always used closed cuff and baton cases... Don't understand why anyone wants their ASP to be on their belt uncovered. The undesirables now know where your ASP is and it makes retention difficult.


That slows your baton draw a lot doesn't it?


Depends on the baton holder, yeah. A proper closed one should have a button you can unsnap and draw the baton. Would only add maybe a second to your draw or less.

Regardless of the type of baton carrier you're using, someone grabs your baton, you would be justified in drawing your firearm. That's what I would personally do.

The consensus I've reached is the baton is your least used tool anyway as opposed to your CEW and OC. Guys I've spoken to have only ever drawn and deployed a baton 3-4 times in their whole career.

Well I disagree with those guys. The baton is pretty much my go to, practice with it and wipe the floor with any shithead who even thinks of scrapping with you. Never runs out of ammo, battery charge, have to worry about wind, cross contamination, and worse case scenario you can up the force to lethal with the same tool
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby Von » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:51 am

DonutManThe consensus I've reached is the baton is your least used tool anyway as opposed to your CEW and OC. Guys I've spoken to have only ever drawn and deployed a baton 3-4 times in their whole career.[/quote]

[quote="IndictableChaser wrote:
Well I disagree with those guys. The baton is pretty much my go to, practice with it and wipe the floor with any shithead who even thinks of scrapping with you. Never runs out of ammo, battery charge, have to worry about wind, cross contamination, and worse case scenario you can up the force to lethal with the same tool


I think Batons are very underused among many police services, particularly in Ontario. It seems to be the go to for officers in Quebec and in Europe too.

I think the problem is that officers aren't trained to use the properly & they don't really know how to get the most out of them.

Here's a good video on baton training: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kvryZA6Bmg
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke

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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby DonutMan » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:32 pm

Von wrote:I think Batons are very underused among many police services, particularly in Ontario. It seems to be the go to for officers in Quebec and in Europe too.

I think the problem is that officers aren't trained to use the properly & they don't really know how to get the most out of them.

Here's a good video on baton training: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kvryZA6Bmg


I would say the problem is you have to get within striking distance of a person to use it and use it effectively. A CEW can be used at a distance of up to 15 feet. OC spray can be used up to 10-12 feet. A baton you need to be within inches of the person. Some people are uncomfortable getting that close to a subject especially when that person is likely aggressive or resistant.

Their logic may be 'why deploy a baton up close when you can deploy a CEW or OC at a safer distance?'

There is also the concern a baton may not have an effect on someone on adrenaline or narcotics. You've now put yourself in a dangerous position as you're had to move within inches to strike with a baton where you can now be grabbed, grappled etc.

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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby mack_silent » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:54 pm

OC spray has a huge contamination area. It's not accurate and will most likely affect the officer and bystanders.
CEW's are longer range which can make them safer to use... but most security personnel, special constables, and police don't carry them due to budget costs or public opinion.
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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby IndictableChaser » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:16 pm

mack_silent wrote:OC spray has a huge contamination area. It's not accurate and will most likely affect the officer and bystanders.
CEW's are longer range which can make them safer to use... but most security personnel, special constables, and police don't carry them due to budget costs or public opinion.



DonutMan wrote:
Von wrote:I think Batons are very underused among many police services, particularly in Ontario. It seems to be the go to for officers in Quebec and in Europe too.

I think the problem is that officers aren't trained to use the properly & they don't really know how to get the most out of them.

Here's a good video on baton training: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kvryZA6Bmg


I would say the problem is you have to get within striking distance of a person to use it and use it effectively. A CEW can be used at a distance of up to 15 feet. OC spray can be used up to 10-12 feet. A baton you need to be within inches of the person. Some people are uncomfortable getting that close to a subject especially when that person is likely aggressive or resistant.

Their logic may be 'why deploy a baton up close when you can deploy a CEW or OC at a safer distance?'

There is also the concern a baton may not have an effect on someone on adrenaline or narcotics. You've now put yourself in a dangerous position as you're had to move within inches to strike with a baton where you can now be grabbed, grappled etc.



Baggy clothes? Winter jacket (remember this is Canada), risk of igniting flammable fluids rules the CEW out. What if you have multiple shitheads? You could OC them but what about extreme cold once again (ya they're tested in freezing temps, but they have failed before in cold temps, especially if you're always outside)? Furthermore then you run the risk of cross contam, especially inside, or simply running out of cop in a can. Then what (I'll tell you what, you go back to the baton if you don't have a taser)? I'm not saying any LEO or security personnel should get hit or take unnecessary risks, but if your'e in this line of work buck up get in there and shut it down instead of pussyfooting :boxer: You have someone high on drugs or ED? You could always break their legs/arms if the situation dictates it; or remember the disengage portion of the UOF wheel, and wait for backup.

Also, I measured my arms, combined with my baton length I have about 4.5 feet of "reach out and educate someone" ability, I'd say that's pretty damn good, and don't forget closed mode strikes. Inside the loo room at YYZ? Elevator? Subways? ETC

Now before anyone gets pissed at me and asks am I a UOF instructor, no. I'm not. I've just been in shitshows before. Been popped, hit back, the usual. I'm not saying don't listen to training or policies, nor am I saying that the baton has magical properties akin to the power ring (green lantern) I'm just saying it's and undervalued, underused tool. Practice with it, run some scenarios, get a couple co-workers and work on it. Strike fast and hard and baddies won't know what smoked em.
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

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Re: Open Cuff cases and Handcuff care

Postby Tango5 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:09 pm

^^^This^^^
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