Online or In-Class?

Ideas in police education and training. Discussion for programs such as police foundations, law & security, criminology, police college training, etc.
j.penner210
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Online or In-Class?

Postby j.penner210 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:01 pm

Hi, I just wanted to hear some feedback from people on taking Police Foundations online or in-class. Which would be better in your opinion? I am currently planning to do it online, which will give me time to work,volunteer and go to gym, and will allow me to be flexible with my studies. I am going through Humber College, and it is set up exactly like if you were going in class ( can talk to professors, students, ect.) I am living with my girlfriend and a buddy in Toronto, so I have to work, going to class for 50 minute lectures would take a big portion out of my day.

I may decide to do in-class for my second year, but I am more leaning towards online.

Thank's alot for your opinions.

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Re: Online or In-Class?

Postby st83 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:43 pm

I have to agree with VanB. I am not saying it is complete waste of time, but I don't believe it will get you any farther ahead of the next applicant that has completed an online course in a different field or trade. This is straight off the WPS recruiting websight (I know you prob aren't interested in the WPS, but I think most Law enforcement agencies have much of the same criteria):

"There is no advantage afforded to an applicant who has taken law enforcement specific training. Private law enforcement training is given consideration as is any other post secondary education or training. The Winnipeg Police Service selects only the most suitable applicants. The value of your education, to the Winnipeg Police Service, is not solely determined by its source.

Recruit training is intense both physically and mentally. Successful applicants will be challenged with continuous learning throughout their careers. Policies, procedures and even the laws you will enforce are subject to change frequently. You must learn to work effectively with those changes.

There are many factors considered by the W.P.S. when selecting individuals for employment. Education is only one such factor and it alone will not afford an advantage to an applicant."

So my opinion is if that's what you are interested in and want to take it and have the money to blow on it, all the power to you. Don't take it thinking it will get you a foot in the door or put you above the rest. My advice would take something that would be a good backup for if law enforcement doesn't work out so you have something to fall back on as we all know it is extremely difficult to get on and you will still have the secondary education for when you do apply.

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Re: Online or In-Class?

Postby j.penner210 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:30 am

Yes, I am aware of that, however I am doing this program because it is something I am highly interested in, as well it will help me get into special constable jobs/high paying security jobs. I mainly just want a college diploma, and I will get that with this program. My main question was just what is a better way in taking a program (pretend its another program other then PF). I have asked Toronto recruiters, and they said that it doesn't matter, as long as I graduate, and that if taking online better suits my lifestyle to do online. However, my girlfriends mom asked her friend who is a recruiter for London and it was a different story. She said it would be better to go to class and work, because it would show alot of dedication. Now as I have stated, the online program is EXACTLY like the in-class program, both use blackboard (which at Humber is where the professor posts lectures and assignments). My girlfriend and her mom both think I should do the in-class program, and they just don't get the whole online concept. I have gone through a semester of college before, and most of the time it is a waste of time to go to lectures, even my girlfriend who goes to university, hardly goes to class because everything is online.

I am also not wanting to do the online program because of laziness, it will be just as much work if not harder then going in-class, and as I have stated I will be able to schedule my own time for work, volunteering, working out and socializing. Rather then following a set schedule and having to do everything around it.

Anyway, if anyone has any opinion's on this please let me know,

Thanks alot.

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Re: Online or In-Class?

Postby Leeworthy » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:37 am

A college diploma is a college diploma. It doesn't matter the source. If you can only afford the time to the online course, then do the online course. It show's dedication one way or the other. In one way you are dedicated to your studies solely. The other, you are dedicated to your job, your family, and your education, and are able to multi-task such activities. I am not a recruiter, so I cannot give you a recruiters perspective. But from the perspective of someone who has knowledge of CF recruiting, a diploma is just that, a piece of paper and we don't care where you received it from, or how you received it, be it online or in class.

Personally, I think someone is more dedicated if they can manage more then one thing at a time, and still achieve the goal they had set out to achieve.
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Re: Online or In-Class?

Postby SD_SC1 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:24 pm

I've done both, so I can give you some insight.

j.penner210 wrote:Yes, I am aware of that, however I am doing this program because it is something I am highly interested in, as well it will help me get into special constable jobs/high paying security jobs.

I'm in the same boat, but I had to put everything on hold when I unexpectedly acquired a long term injury. If you get injured, you're pretty much up the creek without a paddle with the diploma alone, and will have to go back to school. I tried other areas of study, but I had no interest in it whatsoever. Fortunately my diploma was 100% transferable to get a degree allowing me to work in other related areas like probation, parole, and social services. My entire final year is in the field and through distance education.

My main question was just what is a better way in taking a program (pretend its another program other then PF). I have asked Toronto recruiters, and they said that it doesn't matter, as long as I graduate, and that if taking online better suits my lifestyle to do online.

Each delivery method has its pros and cons. Online, video conference, and hard copy distance learning classes are designed for people who either don't have access to schools where they live, work and are unable to attend classes, or some other reason which would inhibit your ability to take on-campus classes.

On-campus classes are more interactive. You have discussions and can ask questions (it's not the same as message board discussions) during class, complete group work (I've done online classes with group work and it has been a gong show), do class presentations to practice your public speaking skills, etc. College isn't the same as most university courses. It's more interactive and hands on. University is a lot more lecture style teaching.

However, my girlfriends mom asked her friend who is a recruiter for London and it was a different story. She said it would be better to go to class and work, because it would show alot of dedication.

In my experiences, it takes more dedication to complete classes on your own than it does to show up on time for classes. To effectively complete online classes and get a good mark, you have to read everything on your own, complete your assignments and exams on time and on your own. It takes a lot of self discipline, dedication and time management to come home after a long hard day of work and work on classes, or give up your weekends to complete classes. I can't imagine doing school online when there is nothing preventing me from taking on-campus courses.
Now as I have stated, the online program is EXACTLY like the in-class program, both use blackboard (which at Humber is where the professor posts lectures and assignments).

No, they're not, for the reasons I previously mentioned.

I have gone through a semester of college before, and most of the time it is a waste of time to go to lectures, even my girlfriend who goes to university, hardly goes to class because everything is online.

That's a bad attitude to have towards education. You go to classes to have class discussions, ask questions, get the instructor's explanation and expansion on the PowerPoint notes. I have a psych class taught by psychologist who works at the prison, and if it wasn't for her stories, explanations, and class discussions, I would not get as much out of the class as I would if I just read the online class PowerPoint notes.
I am also not wanting to do the online program because of laziness, it will be just as much work if not harder then going in-class, and as I have stated I will be able to schedule my own time for work, volunteering, working out and socializing. Rather then following a set schedule and having to do everything around it.

Numerous people in my classes have been able to do everything you mentioned. Unless you work full time and your schedule isn't flexible, you can usually schedule your classes to allow you to live your life at the same time.
Anyway, if anyone has any opinion's on this please let me know,

Thanks alot.

Unless there was no way I could take classes on-campus I wouldn't do my classes online. I had to do them through distance learning when I wasn't able to move to take them, and I was seriously missing the discussions, and I hated having to wait for responses when I had questions about assignments.

Usually if you live in the same area as the school, you can do both on-campus and online.
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Re: Online or In-Class?

Postby Verbose_Caveman » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:16 pm

I'm in a brick-and-mortars Police Studies program with mandatory attendance. Lectures are not only useless, but this forces me to be subjected to the idiocy of the other students. Avoid it; you would be shocked at how moronic, immature and unethical other people taking the same thing are. I wish I was in your situation right now.

As far as the inevitable debate this always goes towards...

Hiring rates are poor, but you're already a step above 95% of PF students by recognizing that your diploma will not immediately make you competitive in armed, sworn law enforcement. Two years postsecondary is two years postsecondary in their eyes. It will, however, be helpful in obtaining peace officer and other related positions. For example, I'm getting my diploma in order to join the Military Police.

I think one of the reasons hiring rates suck is that hardly anyone taking PF has a realistic expectation of what law enforcement recruiting entails at all.

Oh, and I also believe the exact uselessness of PF diplomas is overstated. A textbook I'm using says that 14.3% of Ontario police recruits from 1996-2007 had only a PF diploma, and 11.8% had only a LASA diploma. Bear in mind that pretty much everyone with a PF is applying, and be realistic, but that's a little more encouraging than the anecdotal stuff thrown out here.

EDIT -- I just wanted to add, if I was told on good authority that over half of graduates of my program become LEOs, I would quit and no longer pursue this career path. Weeding out flakes who think a piece of paper makes up for a lifetime of theft, illicit drug abuse, laziness, deceit and violence, is a good thing. I sure as hell can't count on them to watch my back, education aside.

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Re: Online or In-Class?

Postby SD_SC1 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:44 pm

Verbose_Caveman wrote:I'm in a brick-and-mortars Police Studies program with mandatory attendance. Lectures are not only useless, but this forces me to be subjected to the idiocy of the other students. Avoid it; you would be shocked at how moronic, immature and unethical other people taking the same thing are. I wish I was in your situation right now.


Welcome to the real world.Just today a girl in my ethics class was telling me about how she got her boyfriend to write the second half of her ethics paper. You're going to run into a lot of unethical people in your life. You can't just hide in your house away from them.
Sed libera nos a malo.

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Re: Online or In-Class?

Postby Verbose_Caveman » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:52 pm

SD_SC1 wrote:
Verbose_Caveman wrote:I'm in a brick-and-mortars Police Studies program with mandatory attendance. Lectures are not only useless, but this forces me to be subjected to the idiocy of the other students. Avoid it; you would be shocked at how moronic, immature and unethical other people taking the same thing are. I wish I was in your situation right now.


Welcome to the real world.Just today a girl in my ethics class was telling me about how she got her boyfriend to write the second half of her ethics paper. You're going to run into a lot of unethical people in your life. You can't just hide in your house away from them.


No shit, Sherlock. I'm not taking police studies because I want to "hide in [my] house." Now I get why all those other posters were ragging on you in that other thread.

It would just be nice if I didn't have to actually do group projects with crap-flinging degenerates who literally threaten to fight me on a regular basis. It's exactly like junior high, except people don't cross certain lines because they don't want assault charges. I'm not averse to confrontation, I'm just not enjoying the dynamic and social expectations in this situation.

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Re: Online or In-Class?

Postby SD_SC1 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:57 pm

Verbose_Caveman wrote:
SD_SC1 wrote:
Verbose_Caveman wrote:I'm in a brick-and-mortars Police Studies program with mandatory attendance. Lectures are not only useless, but this forces me to be subjected to the idiocy of the other students. Avoid it; you would be shocked at how moronic, immature and unethical other people taking the same thing are. I wish I was in your situation right now.


Welcome to the real world.Just today a girl in my ethics class was telling me about how she got her boyfriend to write the second half of her ethics paper. You're going to run into a lot of unethical people in your life. You can't just hide in your house away from them.


No shit, Sherlock. I'm not taking police studies because I want to "hide in [my] house." Now I get why all those other posters were ragging on you in that other thread.

It would just be nice if I didn't have to actually do group projects with crap-flinging degenerates who literally threaten to fight me on a regular basis. It's exactly like junior high, except people don't cross certain lines because they don't want assault charges. I'm not averse to confrontation, I'm just not enjoying the dynamic and social expectations in this situation.

Have you raised your concerns to the administration?
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Re: Online or In-Class?

Postby Verbose_Caveman » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

SD_SC1 wrote:Have you raised your concerns to the administration?


Yes, about certain particularly disconcerting students. But it apparently takes more than that for them to turn down someone's tuition. I guess I'll just have more "dealing with unpleasant/aggressive people" experiences to bank for the eventual interviews.

Anyways, I've said my piece. Online sounds appealing to me right about now, for what it's worth.

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Re: Online or In-Class?

Postby SD_SC1 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:37 pm

Verbose_Caveman wrote:
SD_SC1 wrote:Have you raised your concerns to the administration?


Yes, about certain particularly disconcerting students. But it apparently takes more than that for them to turn down someone's tuition. I guess I'll just have more "dealing with unpleasant/aggressive people" experiences to bank for the eventual interviews.

Anyways, I've said my piece. Online sounds appealing to me right about now, for what it's worth.

If you're being threatened, it's not a matter of turning down someone's tuition. If you're expelled or suspended from school, you don't get your tuition back.
Sed libera nos a malo.

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Re: Online or In-Class?

Postby j.penner210 » Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:06 am

Thanks alot for the comment's everyone. I am going to do online for the first year and see how it goes, if all goes well I will continue with it, if not I'll see if I can get into the classes.

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Re: Online or In-Class?

Postby gotchya » Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:15 am

Just notice all the police officers left after a certain member of the board commented...coincidence?
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Re: Online or In-Class?

Postby CourtOfficer » Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:34 pm

I know tonnes of guys who did Police Foundations and got hired. If it'll keep you interested for a couple years, then do it. Personally, I can't stand school. Hence I never went past high school. But if I HAD to go to college, I'd probably do Police Foundations because it's a topic that will keep me there. Anything else and as soon as it started to suck, I'd bail.

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