Toronto Incident

Discussion, questions on police use of force procedures.
Grim_Resolve
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Postby Grim_Resolve » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:22 pm

Man that guy's lucky he didn't take some round(s)...

One false move...Excellent display of composure under immense pressure!

Mark P
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Postby Mark P » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:16 pm

Are you nkidding me?

They are not gonna shoot someone who poored gas all over his person.
(or at least I think they wouldn't)

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NightHawk
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Postby NightHawk » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:28 pm

SaltyDog wrote:Does anyone know, is there a way to save this video footage to disk??

I have tried all I can think of and any SAVE option is always blacked out. I have tried Windows Media Player, Nero Media Player, Real Player, etc. all without success.

Even changing the extension to other common formats (wmv, asf) still allows the file to play but not be saved.

How can I save this video file?

http://mfile.akamai.com/10676/wmv/ondem ... off220.asx


After watching the clip it should be cached in your temp internet files folder. Just copy and paste where you want to save it.

edit: nm...i tried and I guess the file type doesn't save to your hd before playing so this method won't work.

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canucklehead
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Postby canucklehead » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:29 am

Or go here.. this vid is world wide already..

http://www.compfused.com/filedl/09grnvj ... obdone.wmv
just right click save as

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ChallengeDriven
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Postby ChallengeDriven » Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:56 am

Deleted
Last edited by ChallengeDriven on Wed May 05, 2010 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Brando
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Postby Brando » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:43 am

who needs tazers when you have a crown vic... :P

marcus
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Postby marcus » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:59 am

JeffBB wrote:
"It's nice that everything worked out well, the guy's very lucky he wasn't shot.
I find it troubling in a way that people are calling for a tazer in this situation, as far as I was trained knife = serious bodily harm or death = firearm, we already have a tool to use in this situation, don't need a tazer.
Though I suppose with that many officers on scene one can deploy a tazer with everyone else providing cover with their firearms. "


Howard wrote:
"I agree. The world is going nuts with wanting "less than lethal" or "less lethal" weapons.
Maybe Spiderman could have swung down and tied him up in a big web?
The asshat was wielding two butcher knives.
2 x lethal weapons = response with lethal force. Period."


Sorry guys, can't agree there. While deadly force could have been justified on this guy, the guys at TPS did a great job ending it the way they did. No officer (or force) needs the bullshit that follows a shooting if it can be avoided. I'm 99.5 % sure this standoff could have been over with same result (bad guy in custody, no one hurt) in 5 minutes with two constables, one with Taser and one providing lethal overwatch. I've had the opportunity to do this against a knife-wielding idiot. Tasers work and all departments should have them for when the situation dictates.

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Postby JeffBB » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:48 pm

Marcus, certainly impact factors need to be taken into consideration and as long as someone is providing lethal cover then I guess try whatever you can as long as you can remain a safe distance (which we were taught at OPC is 30+ feet from guy with knife).

I'm just concerned that the media and heaven forbid the SIU will get to a point where it is expected that we tazer a knife wielding bad guy and when someone uses lethal force they will be under even increased scrutiny.

Though I certainly understand that just because we have the authority to use lethal or any other type of force for that matter doesn't mean we have to except in most cases as a last resort.

Anyways thats about as far as I want to dive into this topic on a open forum.

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Postby CourtOfficer » Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:18 pm

SIU will not be continuing their investigation due to the minor nature of the accused's injuries.

CO

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Howard
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Postby Howard » Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:21 am

marcus wrote:JeffBB wrote:
"It's nice that everything worked out well, the guy's very lucky he wasn't shot.
I find it troubling in a way that people are calling for a tazer in this situation, as far as I was trained knife = serious bodily harm or death = firearm, we already have a tool to use in this situation, don't need a tazer.
Though I suppose with that many officers on scene one can deploy a tazer with everyone else providing cover with their firearms. "


Howard wrote:
"I agree. The world is going nuts with wanting "less than lethal" or "less lethal" weapons.
Maybe Spiderman could have swung down and tied him up in a big web?
The asshat was wielding two butcher knives.
2 x lethal weapons = response with lethal force. Period."


Sorry guys, can't agree there. While deadly force could have been justified on this guy, the guys at TPS did a great job ending it the way they did. No officer (or force) needs the bullshit that follows a shooting if it can be avoided. I'm 99.5 % sure this standoff could have been over with same result (bad guy in custody, no one hurt) in 5 minutes with two constables, one with Taser and one providing lethal overwatch. I've had the opportunity to do this against a knife-wielding idiot. Tasers work and all departments should have them for when the situation dictates.


I'm not second guessing the actions of the cops on the scene at all. I can't even get the damn video to play. My point is that I'm sick of new use of force options coming out and being heralded as the be-all and end-all.

The guy was waving knives. Knives are lethal weapons. When I first started in this racket the only intermediate (they weren't even called less lethal) weapons we had were 3 D-cell Mag lights that we bought ourselves.

Now we have batons and pepper spray and eventually everyone will be carrying tasers. Then someone will market violent offender restraining foam that can be shot from a gun and we'll have to carry that. Then there'll be big whiffle bats treated with fast absorbing tranquilizers that'll make some violent assclown fall asleep (but don't hit him too hard - Charter issues you know - oh and insure he's not allergic - check for a Medic Alert bracelet before you deploy the bat).

Brain surgeons like the ones over analyzing how army recruits accept violence (in another thread) can keep parading out an endless array of ridiculous less lethal options - they may all be good, per se but that doesn't mean we need to all automatically fall on our knees rejoicing and waiting for Martha Stewart to declare them "a Good Thing".

When does it stop? When does society collectively start putting responsibility where it should go? I don't piss and moan that the officers should have had tasers, or that they should have done this or that differently. I think - Buddy you shouldn't have been doing that. Period.

I agree the coppers on the scene did a great job. Problem is, if they had shot the idiot, they'd be crucified. Four officers were gunned down in cold blood yet it doesn't open peoples' eyes. The way things are eroding, pretty soon a cop will only be able to shoot back after he's already been shot or stabbed...a few times. Think I'm kidding? Wait for it.

Rant off.
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. (Thomas Jefferson)

marcus
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Postby marcus » Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:34 am

Howard wrote: Four officers were gunned down in cold blood yet it doesn't open peoples' eyes.


I pray that peoples' eyes will begin to open.

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Postby lmanRLPM » Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:48 pm

not being a officer , but I think it went great..bad guy only got a broken wrist and no one else was hurt...great job to the men and women of T.O....hope to be with them soon :D
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Jib
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Postby Jib » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:23 pm

:jump: :jump: Just went to this site http://www.big-boys.com (they post stupid video's and crazy antics) And I saw this incident made it on there. Couldn't help but laugh.
dura lex sed lex

katerina68

re: TO police stand off

Postby katerina68 » Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:12 am

Hi everyone.....i am new to these forums.....I saw the TO police stand off with the knife wheeling subject and watched it over and over and laughed everytime.....I guess when working in law enforcement long enough, one becomes cynical and warped...... :shock: :roll:

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Postby RDMP » Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:11 am

So I finally got ot watch the video and good wheels to TPS for resolving the situation without leathal force. I know everyone was pretty excited and I'm glad they didn't have to shoot him cause after they pinned him two guys had their pistols out and were sweeping each other. Watch your arcs boys.
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