OC vs. Pitbull

Discussion, questions on police use of force procedures.
portcullisguy
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OC vs. Pitbull

Postby portcullisguy » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:53 pm

Let me start off by saying I love dogs, in fact any animals, and would hope that I never have to make a decision that I will discuss briefly below.

However, during a roll up for a project recently a question came up about whether dogs might be encountered during potential arrests/Feeney warrant executions. As it turns out at least two of the targets own a pitbull.

Anyhow, the suggestion came up that any potential dogs could be OC sprayed if they attacked. To be fair, the suggestion was made by one if our agency's yet to be armed officers. Apparently the plan of shooting a dog was not received warmly, although im fairly certain this was specifically mentioned in training.

Anyway, the point if thus is not to address any training issues... I am we'll aware of what my options are. But for those unarmed officers, any thoughts on the value of OC versus attacking Pitbull?
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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby basketcase » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:55 pm

Fire extinguishers work great on dogs.
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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby Homer » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:20 pm

I personally know an instructor who was able to shake off pepper spray enough to get to the officer (in a training environment) - it wasn't fun for him, but he could fight through. I'm pretty sure that a motivated and enraged person would have no trouble, and angry dogs I suspect would be the same. Might work against a dog that was barking defensively, but not one that was attacking, IMHO.

Furthermore, I would not worry about whether the dog is a pit bull or a lab - either one can mess you up, and it's much more about the way the dog was raised (and abused) than the breed.
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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby Paul R » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:22 am

I was about to reply with my experience in deploying OC spray with an aggressive dog then I realized that this post was in the Public Forums. I prefer not to discuss matters of Use of Force in an open setting where any yoohoo with google can come in, read the info and then take it out of it's full context and try and use it in a negative way. Not even sure why we have such a category on the Public side.
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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby meathead1 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:44 am

Paul R wrote:I was about to reply with my experience in deploying OC spray with an aggressive dog then I realized that this post was in the Public Forums. I prefer not to discuss matters of Use of Force in an open setting where any yoohoo with google can come in, read the info and then take it out of it's full context and try and use it in a negative way. Not even sure why we have such a category on the Public side.


As was I. I'm sure most of the coppers on here know about my experience a few years ago with 2 pitbulls. OC spray wasn't even considered.
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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby No 20 Year Medal » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:29 am

As the Pat Travers Band sang some years ago "Boom Boom, Out Go The Lights" :evil:
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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby GoodWitness » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:53 am

Well, stop the threat, right? Civilian here, maybe I just have more common sense than most, but it seems pretty obvious that an active threat should be stopped, not jut potentially annoyed/enraged. OC on a threat with opposable thumbs (and in an otherwise rational state of mind) without the immediate means and apparent intent to do something life-threatening, sure. Fido, who could leap at your neck with, what is it, 4X the fighting strength of a same-weight human, so I guess the equivalent for an 80 lb. dog would be an out of control 320 lb. human with a knife in each hand?

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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby TacticsPT » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:45 pm

Just like everything else in the force world, the circumstance dictates the response. If you know you are going up against mad puppies then you prepare for mad puppies. Not all dog breeds go for the throat, not all breeds have high prey drives. Humans have a lag time on OC from when it’s deployed to when it kicks in so why would an animal be any different?
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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby GoodWitness » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:50 pm

I have heard about the fire extinguisher before, though, with good results. Probably easier to hit the dog with, too.
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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby RyanNS » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:52 am

I've deployed OC on nuisance dogs in the past it never really seemed to have much of an affect. If it was a grievous bodily harm/death situation I wouldn't even be considering OC spray unless extraordinary circumstances dictated otherwise.

"Pitbull" is a generic term used to describe any muscle bound, short haired dog so you could, potentially be referring to any mixed breed.

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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby SPC » Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:03 am

RyanNS wrote:I've deployed OC on nuisance dogs in the past it never really seemed to have much of an affect. If it was a grievous bodily harm/death situation I wouldn't even be considering OC spray unless extraordinary circumstances dictated otherwise.

"Pitbull" is a generic term used to describe any muscle bound, short haired dog so you could, potentially be referring to any mixed breed.


I personally wouldn't use the dgbh threshold when it comes to an animal.
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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby Stinger » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:01 am

Pitbull comes at me, BANG They are very protective and aggressive. Too long to take the OC out and trying to spray it around. Put the dog down before it tears your leg off.

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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby Homer » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:39 pm

Stinger wrote:Pitbull comes at me, BANG They are very protective and aggressive. Too long to take the OC out and trying to spray it around. Put the dog down before it tears your leg off.

I would hazard a guess that is the standard response for pretty much any dog over 30 lbs. ANY breed can be very protective, and the smaller ones are often more aggressive. Whenever possible, have the owner contain any animals prior to entering the home so you don't have to deal with it. Unfortunately, you don't always have that option.
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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby shootemup » Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:56 pm

It doesn't always work to have the owner contain the dog, either...

I've once had the owner loose a dog on me from about 60 ft away after locking it in a kennel at our request...called it back when he saw I was ready to lay into the dog with the baton.

And I have two very nice small round white scars on the bottom and on the top of my left forearm from a bite by some little old lady's standard poodle. Damn thing was on a leash, but I was still within range. Clamped on my arm as I was writing on my clipboard, and all I could do was beat it over the head with the clipboard (nice aluminum one, too) until it let go. Canine teeth must have been more than an 1" long... Helps me remember the last time I had my shots, though!


Just wish it was some other dog than a standard poodle...not very manly to tell this story, as people think is is one of those dinky lapdogs until I show the scars.
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Re: OC vs. Pitbull

Postby GoodWitness » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm

shootemup wrote:It doesn't always work to have the owner contain the dog, either...

I've once had the owner loose a dog on me from about 60 ft away after locking it in a kennel at our request...called it back when he saw I was ready to lay into the dog with the baton.

And I have two very nice small round white scars on the bottom and on the top of my left forearm from a bite by some little old lady's standard poodle. Damn thing was on a leash, but I was still within range. Clamped on my arm as I was writing on my clipboard, and all I could do was beat it over the head with the clipboard (nice aluminum one, too) until it let go. Canine teeth must have been more than an 1" long... Helps me remember the last time I had my shots, though!


Just wish it was some other dog than a standard poodle...not very manly to tell this story, as people think is is one of those dinky lapdogs until I show the scars.

I still have a small scar where our miniature poodle bit my thumb when I was about 14 (it only bit me once, btw). It bit through the skin below the nail and actually right through the nail underneath. Frigging thing was the fastest dog our vet had ever seen, and could be downright nasty. Frankly my dad spoiled that dog. That's the problem with most dogs, the owners.


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