PPCT Manual

Discussion, questions on police use of force procedures.
Chuk750
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Re: PPCT Manual

Postby Chuk750 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:20 am

PPCT is excellent for what it is... It is not the be all end all, its not even close. However it is a great starting point in learning defensive tactics, anyone who has taken it or plans on taking it should look at it for what it is, basically the kindergarten of defensive tactics. That doesnt make it bad, but it is a system geared towards the lowest common denominator.
PPCT is great for a start in training but ensure you learn more as well.
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Re: PPCT Manual

Postby anstevens » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:46 am

Chuk750 wrote:PPCT is excellent for what it is... It is not the be all end all, its not even close. However it is a great starting point in learning defensive tactics, anyone who has taken it or plans on taking it should look at it for what it is, basically the kindergarten of defensive tactics. That doesnt make it bad, but it is a system geared towards the lowest common denominator.
PPCT is great for a start in training but ensure you learn more as well.


I agree Chuck! It has really just opened my eyes to defense tactics, and has made me hungry for much much more!

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Re: PPCT Manual

Postby Jim Street » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:29 pm

anstevens wrote:
Jim Street wrote:I'd stick with learnning other methods of fighting, and paying attention to their training methods when/if you're hired.


Jim, have you ever heard of Senshido? The founder, Richard Dimitri resides in my town now, and have learned some things from him as well. Just wanted to know if you have heard of it, and what you think?
Thanks!


No, I'm not an mma guy by any means. Apparently Brazilian jiu-jitsu is the way to go. But anything's worth a try if you have the time.

What it comes down to is training and practice. Which takes discipline.

I disagree that PPCT is a good starting point, the tactics are focused far too much on fine motor skills and static training. Fights are never static, one always goes back to instinct.

Unless you're always practicing certain disciplines, it's best to keep it simple.
Opinions posted are my own sole opinion not reflective of any views/thoughts of agency. Answers may or may not be truthful, As if you couldn't tell.

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Re: PPCT Manual

Postby anstevens » Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:01 pm

Thanks for all the advice! I appreciate it and am going to look into these other recommendations. :thumbsup:

meathead1
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Re: PPCT Manual

Postby meathead1 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:37 pm

how about you just wait until you get hired by the police, then practice whatever training they provide you with?
When things get bad, I take comfort in knowing they could always be worse.
When things get worse, I take comfort in knowing they can only get better.

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Re: PPCT Manual

Postby anstevens » Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:49 pm

I like to be proactive in my career goals. And it also provides another form of physical exercise, instead of always just hitting the gym and going for runs. Defense tactics is a form of discipline, so I feel there is more to learn than an arm lock or takedown. It also provides communication technique and confidence. I don't see much downside to wanting to pursue those things while in the application process.

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Re: PPCT Manual

Postby Sumo_CPO » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:57 pm

Jim Street wrote:I disagree that PPCT is a good starting point, the tactics are focused far too much on fine motor skills and static training. Fights are never static, one always goes back to instinct.

Unless you're always practicing certain disciplines, it's best to keep it simple.


I would argue that perhaps your trainers are providing you with a slightly flawed presentation of the material. My experience with PPCT has been anything but "static", and I find that I have to stop myself from trying to teach my students more than they can handle. Years of training have allowed me to be able to utilize fine and complex motor skills at times when someone else might be strictly limited to gross motor skills, which is what I consider the majority of the PPCT techniques to be.

The pressure point stuff - yes, it is based on fine motor skills. But, the situations that those techniques are intended to be used in would normally occur when one's heart rate is conducive to performing fine motor skill actions. Also, any instructor worthy of the name will tell you that the pressure point stuff will not work on everyone, and you will need to be prepared to adjust your level of response accordinginly.

Just my opinion, though. YMMV.
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Re: PPCT Manual

Postby meathead1 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:12 am

anstevens wrote:I like to be proactive in my career goals. And it also provides another form of physical exercise, instead of always just hitting the gym and going for runs. Defense tactics is a form of discipline, so I feel there is more to learn than an arm lock or takedown. It also provides communication technique and confidence. I don't see much downside to wanting to pursue those things while in the application process.


well then, why don't you go buy yourself a dog and start doing k9 tracks in your off time? Or, go stand in an intersection and do some traffic control? Better yet, buy yourself a radar gun from E-Bay, set up a speed trap and go enforce speed limits?

IF you ge hired, you will get the training you need to be successful. No one wants to be "that guy" that goes to training and thinks they already know it all because they studied PPCT. And if you don't believe me, you are probably already "that guy". Your potential troop mates will not like it, nor will your training staff.
When things get bad, I take comfort in knowing they could always be worse.
When things get worse, I take comfort in knowing they can only get better.

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Re: PPCT Manual

Postby anstevens » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:10 am

meathead1 wrote:
anstevens wrote:I like to be proactive in my career goals. And it also provides another form of physical exercise, instead of always just hitting the gym and going for runs. Defense tactics is a form of discipline, so I feel there is more to learn than an arm lock or takedown. It also provides communication technique and confidence. I don't see much downside to wanting to pursue those things while in the application process.


well then, why don't you go buy yourself a dog and start doing k9 tracks in your off time? Or, go stand in an intersection and do some traffic control? Better yet, buy yourself a radar gun from E-Bay, set up a speed trap and go enforce speed limits?

IF you ge hired, you will get the training you need to be successful. No one wants to be "that guy" that goes to training and thinks they already know it all because they studied PPCT. And if you don't believe me, you are probably already "that guy". Your potential troop mates will not like it, nor will your training staff.



Meathead my purpose of PPCT training, and any other form of defense training, is for personal growth. I am in no way talking about imposing myself on anyone. I don't have the knowledge to go ahead and do the tasks you have suggested to me. If you have some obtainable goals you might have in mind for me to achieve while in the process then I will gladly take any suggestions. Lets leave the dogs, and radar guns for the professionals, shall we?

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Re: PPCT Manual

Postby meathead1 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:00 pm

anstevens wrote: If you have some obtainable goals you might have in mind for me to achieve while in the process then I will gladly take any suggestions.


Learn a second language
Volunteer with mentaly ill persons
Volunteer with the homeless
Volunteer with disadvantaged people
Volunteer with Habitat for Humanity
Improve your physical fitness.

Anyone of these should be something you could improve on. Learning PPCT because it's something you MAY need IF you get hired just screams wannabe.
When things get bad, I take comfort in knowing they could always be worse.
When things get worse, I take comfort in knowing they can only get better.

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Re: PPCT Manual

Postby anstevens » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:09 pm

Appreciate it, thanks!

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Re: PPCT Manual

Postby Jim Street » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:51 pm

Sumo_CPO wrote:I would argue that perhaps your trainers are providing you with a slightly flawed presentation of the material. My experience with PPCT has been anything but "static", and I find that I have to stop myself from trying to teach my students more than they can handle. Years of training have allowed me to be able to utilize fine and complex motor skills at times when someone else might be strictly limited to gross motor skills, which is what I consider the majority of the PPCT techniques to be.

The pressure point stuff - yes, it is based on fine motor skills. But, the situations that those techniques are intended to be used in would normally occur when one's heart rate is conducive to performing fine motor skill actions. Also, any instructor worthy of the name will tell you that the pressure point stuff will not work on everyone, and you will need to be prepared to adjust your level of response accordinginly.

Just my opinion, though. YMMV.


I took PPCT a long time ago along with a few variants. I found the premise of the arm bars and that crap completely useless after learning a more "instinctual" method. As for "pressure points", they work good for waking drunks up. That's about it.

I just wouldn't get all hung up on the PPCT when one can learn how to punch and some ground fighting basics. Lots of us will say most fights turn into more of a "wrestling match". I never found PPCT had any effective fundamentals for dealing with that.
Opinions posted are my own sole opinion not reflective of any views/thoughts of agency. Answers may or may not be truthful, As if you couldn't tell.

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Re: PPCT Manual

Postby anstevens » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:17 pm

That is something I certainly noticed in the course. I was always asking the instructor "what if the subject isn't compliant and you both are going to the ground?" Everything seemed to be based on a more compliant subject... I will take it as a learning experience and be open to more effective training at Depot or OPC. In the mean time, jiu-jitsu is going to be my martial art of choice. Thanks Jim for that advice!


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