Use of Force Continuum: Managements Does Not Understand

Discussion, questions on police use of force procedures.
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Bitterman
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Re: Use of Force Continuum: Managements Does Not Understand

Postby Bitterman » Tue May 24, 2011 6:43 pm

Well I'm not cool.... Drats!
Admit nothing.
Deny everything.
Make counter accusations...

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Re: Use of Force Continuum: Managements Does Not Understand

Postby Davo » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:08 pm

I spent some time as a Health Department training coordinator after leaving the Police so I'm not surprised at some of the reactions by some nursing staff who sometimes see their role as a patient carer as being holier than thou and surpassing any notion of common sense.

We couldn't count how many officers have found themselves pleading for their jobs after doing exactly as they have been trained to do by their employers or for escalating when trained tactics fail under resistance.

That's the world we live in. Often damned if you don't follow policy and damned if you do.

I can only see some elements of management, the community and the media having higher expectations of Officers as I'm quite certain they won't be coming back to earth anytime soon. I see only two solutions - either the training department changes the training for something that is functional or the officer undertakes personal external training for something that is low key and functional - i.e. getting the job done quietly and quickly without causing injury or drawing attention. That more or less rules out pain compliance, joint locks and striking as a foundation of DT's systems and necessitates looking outside the box.

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TwE@k
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Re: Use of Force Continuum: Managements Does Not Understand

Postby TwE@k » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:12 am

Haldol and Ativan are two quick and quiet ways of gaining complaince in a Hospital setting :lol:
WADDAYA MEAN I CAN'T TAKE OFF MY SWEADDER??? I'M HAWT!!!! - Drunken Mr.Rogers

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Longarm9
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Re: Use of Force Continuum: Managements Does Not Understand

Postby Longarm9 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:32 am

TwE@k wrote:Haldol and Ativan are two quick and quiet ways of gaining complaince in a Hospital setting :lol:


Unfortunately administering narcotics is definitely not something they're going to empower security guards to do any time soon.

Lucky for me when I worked in hospital security, my supervisors well understood that force was sometimes necessary. I don't recall anyone ever being called on the carpet for using too much force. A few idiotic nurses sometimes bitched about it, but the supervisors politely listened to and then ignored their baseless comments.

I remember one time we were doing a stand by with a violent female patient who was being arrested by VPD. She kept swearing and trying to get up/fight the officer. Finally he just said, "If you try that shit again you're going to be face down on this floor." So she tried to get up and found herself face down on the lino before she knew what hit her. This one particularly bitchy nurse came over in a huff and was like, "Hmph! Is that REALLY necessary?" The constable glared at her and replied, "YES, it is." She stormed off in a bigger huff and he looked at us (still assisting him to hold down the struggling druggie) and said, "What the f*** was that?" We just shrugged, "Welcome to our world." He laughed.

That guy was a good fella.
"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing." -John Stuart Mill

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TwE@k
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Re: Use of Force Continuum: Managements Does Not Understand

Postby TwE@k » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:56 pm

Longarm9 wrote:
TwE@k wrote:Haldol and Ativan are two quick and quiet ways of gaining complaince in a Hospital setting :lol:


Unfortunately administering narcotics is definitely not something they're going to empower security guards to do any time soon.



Nor should they....not their job. For the most part any time we dealt with anything like that it was in the ER or a form 1 section of the Hopital and the staff were available to pump the happy juice into the patient for us :thumbsup: It's like naything else in life though. There are the ones who love to armchair quarter back and let every one know how they feel on any given subject and then there are those who come in to work, do their job the best they can and go home.
WADDAYA MEAN I CAN'T TAKE OFF MY SWEADDER??? I'M HAWT!!!! - Drunken Mr.Rogers

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Re: Use of Force Continuum: Managements Does Not Understand

Postby Davo » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:52 am

I'm all for chemical restraints where possible - but there comes a time when someone refuses meds or the meds don't take effect and restraint is necessary to either ensure compliance with the medical regime or for self defence in the event that the meds aren't administered soon enough. In my exposure to mental health wards that was at least daily.....

I can also think back to a time when restraint was necessary on suicidal patients who were on a hunger strike and had to be placed on a drip against their will.

Horses for courses - I don't expect the nurses to get in there and do the rough and tumble if there is someone else there that can do the hard yards and be the bad guy in the patients eyes, but I do expect them to assist in some more passive way with the restraint and offer a soothing voice to settle the patient rather than complain about the actions of a code black team.....


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