OC Spray - Use of force question

Discussion, questions on police use of force procedures.
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canadianmp
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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby canadianmp » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:20 pm

Madeline236 wrote:Image

Couldn't help myself. Oh come on, I know at least some of you were picturing this in your mind.

:alright: LMAO
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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby PHB » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:58 am

PPSC Lawyer wrote:I am reviewing a file, and I saw a reference to something unusual. I don't think it's anything to be alarmed about, but I wonder if anyone here had any comments:

Officer is attempting to handcuff a resistant subject. Situation is somewhat harried. Officer, who is wearing gloves, sprays OC spray into his glove, then puts his hand in the subject's face.

I've never heard of using spray in such a manner. Is that a part of training, an inventive use by this officer, or something specifically to be avoided?

As this is an open file I really can not offer any further details. If any officer would prefer to answer via personal message, I would completely understand.


I was never trained to do that but I was never trained to throw a guy off a deck either. Go figure. Shit happens in the field and each situation is different. Situations rarely if ever go as they are supposed to in the field especially when use of force is involved. Other than talking to the arresting officer and get his opinion all we can really do is guess.
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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby Toonces » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:04 pm

I've yet to encounter a use-of-force situation that was like anything in training.

good point, PHB.
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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby basketcase » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:33 pm

I'll have to agree with the above. Nobody ever trained me to do a full nelson on a guy and pull him out of the car through the window. But it happened.

What came of your case PPSC?
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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby TwE@k » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:09 am

PHB wrote:
PPSC Lawyer wrote:I am reviewing a file, and I saw a reference to something unusual. I don't think it's anything to be alarmed about, but I wonder if anyone here had any comments:

Officer is attempting to handcuff a resistant subject. Situation is somewhat harried. Officer, who is wearing gloves, sprays OC spray into his glove, then puts his hand in the subject's face.

I've never heard of using spray in such a manner. Is that a part of training, an inventive use by this officer, or something specifically to be avoided?

As this is an open file I really can not offer any further details. If any officer would prefer to answer via personal message, I would completely understand.


I was never trained to do that but I was never trained to throw a guy off a deck either. Go figure. Shit happens in the field and each situation is different. Situations rarely if ever go as they are supposed to in the field especially when use of force is involved. Other than talking to the arresting officer and get his opinion all we can really do is guess.



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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby PPSC Lawyer » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:41 pm

basketcase wrote:I'll have to agree with the above. Nobody ever trained me to do a full nelson on a guy and pull him out of the car through the window. But it happened.

What came of your case PPSC?


Sorry, can't say.
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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby basketcase » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:24 pm

PPSC Lawyer wrote:
basketcase wrote:I'll have to agree with the above. Nobody ever trained me to do a full nelson on a guy and pull him out of the car through the window. But it happened.

What came of your case PPSC?


Sorry, can't say.


Because? If it's before the courts it's public knowledge anyway. Unless it was serious enough that there's a publication ban.
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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby SPC » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:29 pm

Typical lawyer. When he needs help, or looking for info, he's all friendly, same team, attaboy, etc. When the shoes on the other foot, he reverts to a two word, BS response.
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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby PPSC Lawyer » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:45 pm

SPC wrote:Typical lawyer. When he needs help, or looking for info, he's all friendly, same team, attaboy, etc. When the shoes on the other foot, he reverts to a two word, BS response.


:roll: It was three and a half words.
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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby meathead1 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:38 pm

you seem kind of shady. I'm sure i'm not the only one on here who is beginning to doubt whether you are actually who (or what) you say you are.
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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby PPSC Lawyer » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:00 pm

Thanks for the vote of confidence opp2.

This thread did touch on an open file that I am dealing with. I very much appreciate the information and advice that people gave me, both in this thread and by way of PMs. I would hope that people would understand that precisely because it touches on an open file it would be unethical of me to discuss it in any detail. And if people don't understand, well, that's too bad, because I'm still not saying anything.

Beyond that, I'm trying to take my cue from the board and 'lighten up' from time to time, such as my 'it was three and a half words'. Was only meant in good humour.

Since I've been more active here a number of people have PMed me with various questions - some of which I was able to help, some of which I was not. I'm glad that a number of people felt comfortable talking to me. Meathead, if you don't, well, there's no reason you need to.
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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby Jim Street » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:34 pm

That being said, surely you can appreciate the apprehensiveness on the part of police officers when answering questions on an internet forum, especially regarding a use of force incident.

As for the original question, no two scenarios are the same and are completely subjective. Especially when force is or should be used.

Like everything else, it's how it's articulated.
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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby PPSC Lawyer » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:54 am

Jim Street wrote:That being said, surely you can appreciate the apprehensiveness on the part of police officers when answering questions on an internet forum, especially regarding a use of force incident.


I certainly do. That probably explains why the only helpful responses I received were from a handful of PMs I received on the topic.
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Re: OC Spray - Use of force question

Postby Cowboy71 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:13 pm

That being said, surely you can appreciate the apprehensiveness on the part of police officers when answering questions on an internet forum, especially regarding a use of force incident.

In regards to the above post and as an active police officer in the role of street policing in the Lower mainland BC, I understand the above but....the vast bulk of the civilan population stick their heads in the collective sand when it comes to policing but are genuinly glad of the job we do. However, most, if not all, have never seen an arrest using any kind of force whatsoever and when it is caught on someone's camera and posted on places like YouTube, there are oooohhs and ahhhhs from that same public. Guess what? There are times when there are 'bad people' out there who don't like the majority of the public let alone Police and when they are getting arrested put up a fight and that has to be met with guess what? Force. What is Force?? It's exactly what is means...punching, OC Spray, batons, and god forbid....a tazer should that be required. All of the afformentioned is certainly used as sparingly as possible but certainly part of getting someone under control that does not want to be arrested. If the general public doesn't like it, perhaps they can come and do a ride-along with me and when there is a arrestee putting up a fight, they can assist with the arrest and get a taste of what it's like to be on the receiving end of a 'resitive and combative suspect'. Just find it disheartening when "Use of Force' has become a 4 letter word......Just my 2 cents worth.


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