Tasered on CBC Feb 18

Discussion, questions on police use of force procedures.
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Re: Tasered on CBC Feb 18

Postby Gardenfit » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:08 pm

Jim Street wrote:If you're not working, you're not sworn. You aren't doing the job. We also don't know the reason for the "break", which could be numerous.

Admittedly it's obviously not the same thing as it is here, but we've had this discussion and someone who is between jobs here would NOT have access to the Private Forum.

These "breaks" don't exist here. Like has been said, this would usually mean they are not serving.


Well then whats the difference between taking 2yrs leave and 3 weeks leave? I mean technically you are still sworn regardless of how much leave you take, you haven't been sacked or resigned.

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Re: Tasered on CBC Feb 18

Postby Columbo » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:12 pm

Jim Street wrote:
Columbo wrote:adavies 1974 makes a valid point. This board tends towards the polemic side regardless of whether it's warranted. No one knows what unit he worked in, what he's seen, dealt with, or struggled to come to terms with from a humanitarian standpoint. As I read time and again from the P.O.'s on this board regarding their own actions, you haven't walked in this man's shoes. This board needs to lighten up and stop being so childish and sophomoric; it's tiresome.


Coming from you, that really doesn't mean alot.


Likewise. This thread is no different than the one that defamed cop23 as not being a cop, wherein he was found out to be an actual police officer without so much as an apology or mea culpa from his accuser. It's one thing to be a pack of argumentative sycophants, but it means a whole lot more to your credibility to sometimes say you were wrong. That is the problem with a select few on this board. It is becoming an unwelcome place more so daily. That is all I have to say.
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Re: Tasered on CBC Feb 18

Postby Gardenfit » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:19 pm

VanB wrote:
CC9769 wrote:
Jim Street wrote:Career break or not, when not actually working, you're not on the job.

It's a misrepresentation to say otherwise.


I would beg to differ, it's basically extended leave without pay, with permission to work anywhere including a police service. A lot of UK cops have come over here to work without resigning from their original service, so if it doesn't work out they can go back..

Its a great system, you reach the 10yr mark...you have had a gutful need some time off to do something else, then when you finished you go back on same rank etc etc....


Great system or not, I still say it's misleading, especially in the context in which it was relayed. This guy's possible UK policing experience doesn't lend him any qualification to comment on the design of the Canadian Police use of force models, or the best way to make police tactics more palatable to the Canadian public. Especially not to the the point that he can express such indignation that people disagree with his barely coherent arguments.

If someone tells me that they are on the job, I take that to mean that they are actively employed by a police service at the moment in time in which they make the statement.


For all we know he's just a poser. However if he's from the UK and had to shoot someone then he's probably one of those guys in the ARV or even maybe SO19...so if he is the real deal then I don't see a problem with him debating such, as I often do with topics such as the Charter....only the over the top comments he made when rebutting the arguments coming from the Canadian side. His UOF model would probably be the same as yours I would think.

As for his status as a cop whilst on leave....well if they haven't taken his badge of him .....??

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Re: Tasered on CBC Feb 18

Postby Jim Street » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:11 pm

Columbo wrote: It's one thing to be a pack of argumentative sycophants, but it means a whole lot more to your credibility to sometimes say you were wrong. That is the problem with a select few on this board. It is becoming an unwelcome place more so daily. That is all I have to say.


Then go away.

There's a weird thing about police officers. Something about being naturally suspicious.

Not that you would know.
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Re: Tasered on CBC Feb 18

Postby Jim Street » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:15 pm

CC9769 wrote:Well then whats the difference between taking 2yrs leave and 3 weeks leave? I mean technically you are still sworn regardless of how much leave you take, you haven't been sacked or resigned.


Leave is different.

Example, if a guy takes parental leave, he loses pretty much everything. Have to turn in gun etc. It's like a leave of absence.

We just don't have anything like is being referred to here. And zero clarification of why the "break" is taken.

Something's just fishy.
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Re: Tasered on CBC Feb 18

Postby gonqgrad » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:22 pm

basketcase wrote:
adavies1974 wrote:So Taser is a "Prohibited Weapon" in canada. End of.....


That said, for LEO use it is an essential tool. In the use of force continum I believe it falls after pepper spray and before lethal force. It's correct designation in my mind should be 'a less lethal alternative' as is has been proven that it can cause a fatality, no matter how slim the chance.
Given the alternative of going straight for a lethal option i think its usage has been proven beyond doubt, and although there may have been deaths from the use of EDC's , the advantages definately outway the disadvantages.


Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about so you shouldn't be commenting on it. Death's don't occur from the use of conducted energy weapons. They are also not a less than lethal option and shouldn't be. They are an intermediate weapon and should remain exactly where they are on the use of force model.


Actually, Ian Scott, the Director of the SIU released a report in the past week naming the TASER as the cause of death, and advised that it should be re-classified as a lethal force option. There won't be charges this time though, because at the time the member deployed the weapon, it was not classified as such, and therefore he couldn't have reasonably intended or expected for it to cause death. Perhaps Ian Scott is warming up plans to charge a member for manslaughter in the next go round. Again, I believe this is well-within the SIU's mandate... :roll:

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Re: Tasered on CBC Feb 18

Postby Gardenfit » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:17 pm

Jim Street wrote:
CC9769 wrote:Well then whats the difference between taking 2yrs leave and 3 weeks leave? I mean technically you are still sworn regardless of how much leave you take, you haven't been sacked or resigned.


Leave is different.

Example, if a guy takes parental leave, he loses pretty much everything. Have to turn in gun etc. It's like a leave of absence.

We just don't have anything like is being referred to here. And zero clarification of why the "break" is taken.

Something's just fishy.


Fair enough, good to see your BS detector is forever in the "on" position...

When we go on leave the gun just stays in the safe...as it always does. What else do you lose during parental leave?

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Re: Tasered on CBC Feb 18

Postby Gardenfit » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:19 pm

VanB wrote:In the RCMP you can only take leave up to a maximum of 28 days at a time without returning to work. If you want to take extended leave without pay you have to turn in your gun, etc.


You get 4 weeks maximum right?

We can't take our guns home here so it's a non-issue. Do you have to turn in the badge?

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Re: Tasered on CBC Feb 18

Postby Jim Street » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:34 pm

Sick benefits, no pay into pension, holiday pay. From what I know.
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Re: Tasered on CBC Feb 18

Postby Gardenfit » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:55 pm

Jim Street wrote:Sick benefits, no pay into pension, holiday pay. From what I know.


Thats just mean ...

Come downunder man :

6weeks leave
unlimited sick leave
good super
lots of sun
don't have to put up with Ice Hockey on TV during winter


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