Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Press Release

Discussion, questions on police use of force procedures.
User avatar
Longarm9
Lord of the Poobahs
Posts: 1276
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:02 pm
Contact:

Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Press Release

Postby Longarm9 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:00 pm

This was in The Province newspaper today:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Nazis+o ... story.html

The details are extremely limited, but I couldn't help but notice this:

"The statement included an apology (emphasis added): 'The RCMP regret the loss of life and are cooperating fully with the investigation'"

Two thoughts come to my mind when I read this. My first instinct is to berate the media for characterizing this statement as an apology when it is not intended to be, but an even more troubling thought comes to my mind. Why is the RCMP issuing such a statement before even the officer involved in the incident has made a statement? Regardless of what they MEANT to say, the RCMP has really screwed this officer by making a statement like this that can be seen to pre-assume the shooting was unjustified. In effect they're hanging his ass out to dry before any investigation has even begun. I find this deeply troubling, and I'm sure many of the RCMP officers here do too. Why couldn't they have said, "The RCMP always considers it unfortunate when a subject's actions make it necessary to use deadly force, and we will fully cooperate with the investigation." and hell, couldn't they even throw in, "We have great confidence in our members and are sure the investigation will prove it to be well founded"?

Thoughts?

*Edited the title in the interest of not being sensationalist myself. I still think the wording is questionable.
Last edited by Longarm9 on Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing." -John Stuart Mill

User avatar
th
Veteran Member
Posts: 244
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:50 pm
Location: British Paraguay
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Bad Press Release

Postby th » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:06 pm

You are reading way too much into one line. They aren't undercutting anyone. Saying the incident is regrettable is not the same as saying the member involved acted inappropriately.
Longarm9 wrote:Why couldn't they have said, "The RCMP always considers it unfortunate when a subject's actions make it necessary to use deadly force, and we will fully cooperate with the investigation."
That is exactly what they said.
:wave:

User avatar
Toonces
King Poobah
Posts: 1942
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Bad Press Release

Postby Toonces » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:08 pm

I agree with th. It's a benign statement, it doesn't lay blame on anyone.
I will NOT respond to PMs from those not belonging to the private side.

User avatar
Longarm9
Lord of the Poobahs
Posts: 1276
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:02 pm
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Bad Press Release

Postby Longarm9 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:32 pm

th wrote:You are reading way too much into one line. They aren't undercutting anyone. Saying the incident is regrettable is not the same as saying the member involved acted inappropriately.
Longarm9 wrote:Why couldn't they have said, "The RCMP always considers it unfortunate when a subject's actions make it necessary to use deadly force, and we will fully cooperate with the investigation."
That is exactly what they said.


No, they said exactly what I said before, which is this:

The Nanaimo statement also included an apology: “The RCMP regrets this tragic loss of life and is cooperating fully with the investigation.”

The media is characterizing their statement as an apology. They didn't say it was "regretable" they said they "regret" it, implying it was a mistake. I'm sure they didn't MEAN it that way, but that's certainly the way the media is spinning it, and it's the wording of the statement that makes it possible.
"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing." -John Stuart Mill

User avatar
Toonces
King Poobah
Posts: 1942
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Bad Press Release

Postby Toonces » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:35 pm

You can't control how the media spins anything. They'll always err on the side of sensationalism, particularly where police are concerned.
I will NOT respond to PMs from those not belonging to the private side.

User avatar
Longarm9
Lord of the Poobahs
Posts: 1276
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:02 pm
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Bad Press Release

Postby Longarm9 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:45 pm

WorkingOnIt wrote:You can't control how the media spins anything. They'll always err on the side of sensationalism, particularly where police are concerned.


Agree, however it's best to give them as little ammunition as possible with which to twist the truth, that's all I'm saying.
"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing." -John Stuart Mill

User avatar
th
Veteran Member
Posts: 244
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:50 pm
Location: British Paraguay
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Bad Press Release

Postby th » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:13 pm

Longarm9 wrote:
th wrote:You are reading way too much into one line. They aren't undercutting anyone. Saying the incident is regrettable is not the same as saying the member involved acted inappropriately.
Longarm9 wrote:Why couldn't they have said, "The RCMP always considers it unfortunate when a subject's actions make it necessary to use deadly force, and we will fully cooperate with the investigation."
That is exactly what they said.


No, they said exactly what I said before, which is this:

The Nanaimo statement also included an apology: “The RCMP regrets this tragic loss of life and is cooperating fully with the investigation.”

The media is characterizing their statement as an apology. They didn't say it was "regretable" they said they "regret" it, implying it was a mistake. I'm sure they didn't MEAN it that way, but that's certainly the way the media is spinning it, and it's the wording of the statement that makes it possible.

When I said, "that is exactly what they said," what I meant was, "your sentence and the one printed in the paper carry the exact same meaning."

You can regret things that aren't mistakes. Nobody is being hung out to dry here.

As for media spin, get over it or stop reading the paper. Otherwise you'll give yourself an aneurysm.
:wave:

red_coat
Sage Member
Posts: 533
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:17 am
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Bad Press Release

Postby red_coat » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:34 pm

th wrote:Otherwise you'll give yourself an aneurysm.


Kind of like some of his posts? :swords:

A.T.R.
King Poobah
Posts: 2291
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:20 am
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Press Release

Postby A.T.R. » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:13 am

Could have been worse. Could have tasered the guy!
If you do not have access to the private side please do not contact me. I do not give employment advice other than what is publicly posted.

User avatar
Datlicht
Rookie Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:54 pm
Location: Ontario
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Press Release

Postby Datlicht » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:37 am

TorontoCopper wrote:Could have been worse. Could have tasered the guy!



How much do you want to bet somehow that exact statement will eventually be discussed by the media. Something like "Are officers not issued items to provide a non-lethal way of dealing with uncooporative people?"
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

Protector24
Rookie Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:44 pm
Location: Edge of the Pacific
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Press Release

Postby Protector24 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:55 pm

.
Last edited by Protector24 on Mon May 27, 2013 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
th
Veteran Member
Posts: 244
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:50 pm
Location: British Paraguay
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Press Release

Postby th » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:49 pm

Man killed by RCMP a neo-Nazi, environmentalist

Jeff Hughes rubbed shoulders with some of North America's most prominent white supremacists, but also was a tireless volunteer for the Georgia Strait Alliance

Brennan Clarke
Victoria — From Tuesday's Globe and Mail Published on Tuesday, Oct. 27, 2009


To B'nai Brith Canada, the man who was shot dead by RCMP in Nanaimo on Friday morning was a hatemonger and a bigot who used the Internet to promote a neo-Nazi agenda, and rubbed shoulders with some of North America's most prominent white supremacists.

To the Georgia Strait Alliance, he was a tireless volunteer with a warm sense of humour who dedicated thousands of hours to environmental causes over the past decade.

“We've lost a deeply loyal and committed volunteer who was a huge asset to this organization, and we will miss him,” said Georgia Strait Alliance managing director Christianne Wilhelmson.

“What we saw was a friendly, very funny and intelligent man who was deeply committed to environmental issues and supported our organization with thousands of hours of his time,” she said.

“This other stuff we're hearing about, it's shocking to many of us because that's not the man we knew.”

Yesterday, police identified the man who died in Friday's shooting as Jeff Hughes, 48, but declined to comment on details that have emerged about his links to white supremacist groups.

B'nai Brith Canada, which keeps track of individuals who promote anti-Semitism and other forms of racial hatred, said yesterday Mr. Hughes has been on the society's radar for several years.

“For quite some time, we have been aware of Jeff Hughes and his odious postings on the Internet,” said B'nai Brith Canada national communications director Dan Rabkin.

“We have on numerous occasions encountered his racist messages on websites such as Stormfront.”

Mr. Hughes's links to the neo-Nazi movement were confirmed in a weekend Internet posting from Harold Covington, a prominent white supremacist in the United States whose radical vision includes the creation of an “Aryan homeland” in the Pacific Northwest.

“I deeply regret to report that at approximately 6 a.m. on Oct. 23, 2009, Comrade Jeff Hughes, the owner and author of this page, was murdered, gunned down outside his home by the RCMP,” Mr. Covington said on a Facebook page called Northwest Imperative.

Mr. Covington confirmed the posting in an e-mail to The Globe and Mail, and said members of his group have been harassed by “Sergeant McGowan and his ilk,” a reference to RCMP Sergeant Sean McGowan, head of the force's provincial hate-crimes unit.

Sgt. McGowan declined to comment.

Mr. Hughes's death, the fourth fatal police shooting in B.C. in the past five weeks, is being investigated by the Vancouver Island Major Crimes Unit under the direction of the Victoria Police Department.

Friday's incident began when Nanaimo RCMP responded to a noise complaint at Mr. Hughes's apartment around 5:45 a.m.

Mr. Hughes refused to speak with police and, based on his “interaction with the responding members,” officers called in the emergency response team, Victoria police said in a press release yesterday.

Around 7 o'clock, Mr. Hughes emerged “carrying what appeared to be a weapon” and was fatally shot by officers, police said.

The building's landlord, Alex Khousaba, described Mr. Hughes as a quiet but friendly man who spent a lot of time alone in his apartment, surrounded by array of swastika flags and other neo-Nazi paraphernalia.

“Sometimes you would see him, he was okay, and sometimes he was just, you know, nervous for no reason,” he said.

Ms. Wilhelmson said staff at the Georgia Strait Alliance were aware that Mr. Hughes struggled with mental illness, but knew nothing about his radical political views.

“He did suffer from mental illness and he told us many times we were the only reason he got up in the morning,” she said.

Special to The Globe and Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/man-killed-by-rcmp-a-neo-nazi-environmentalist/article1339474/
:wave:

User avatar
Minimum Wage Warrior
Lord of the Poobahs
Posts: 1061
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:46 pm
Location: My work queue
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Press Release

Postby Minimum Wage Warrior » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:57 am

I don't think wanting to cleanse the environment of other races makes you an environmentalist.

User avatar
Kopparoo2b
Rookie Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:25 am
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Press Release

Postby Kopparoo2b » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:20 am

I think its only you (longarm9) that are inferring this is an apology. The RCMP obviously HAVE to make a statement of some kind, and officer related shootings are always investigated. Would you rather they have said : "We are very happy this guy was shot, and we are just waiting for the investigation to be over so we can celebrate. We will at no time be co-operative with any aspect of this useless investigation" ???

:ponder: :dubious:
kopparoo2b

"Its not enough to just talk about it"

A.T.R.
King Poobah
Posts: 2291
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:20 am
Contact:

Re: Police Shooting in Nanaimo: Press Release

Postby A.T.R. » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:22 pm

Have they officially released that he wasn't armed yet?
If you do not have access to the private side please do not contact me. I do not give employment advice other than what is publicly posted.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest