what kind of martial arts?

Discussion, questions on police use of force procedures.
Jim Street
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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby Jim Street » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:51 pm

No discomfort at all. Someone with a total of three posts and none on the private side proving you're on the job is what made me question you.
Opinions posted are my own sole opinion not reflective of any views/thoughts of agency. Answers may or may not be truthful, As if you couldn't tell.

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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby Musashi » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:11 pm

how do i get on the private side

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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby Musashi » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:29 pm

Toonces wrote:Really who calls accused or arrested persons 'perps'? I mean other than on TV.


Hahaha!!

Disregard last. I'm in on the police side..

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Kopparoo2b
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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby Kopparoo2b » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:47 pm

Go to the main page or "Board Index", right at the top. Second Discussion Group from the top says "Police Officers Private Discussion". Directions are there.

Edit...oops..I guess you're there....
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Toonces
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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby Toonces » Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:55 pm

Musashi wrote:
Toonces wrote:Really who calls accused or arrested persons 'perps'? I mean other than on TV.


Hahaha!!

Disregard last. I'm in on the police side..

oh! I was hoping you were an actor.

welcome to the PO side.
I will NOT respond to PMs from those not belonging to the private side.

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Madeline236
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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby Madeline236 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:25 pm

Jim Street wrote:No discomfort at all. Someone with a total of three posts and none on the private side proving you're on the job is what made me question you.


I was more confused about his example that implied that police training did not go further than teaching how to deal with compliant suspects.

For example:
Compliant bad guys, no problem, departmental use of force training will give you all the training you need...

Officer: "put your hands behind your back!"
Bad Guy: " Okay, no problem, I don't want any trouble.."

Piece of cake!!



I am guessing that my comment "stop talking and start training" has caused some discomfort on the forum maybe?? That's good. It's raised some attention on the threat. I am not pointing fingers at anyone in particular but the harshness of this may be tough to swallow for the "talkers". Hey, the truth hurts.


So if someone questions you on your posts you assume they must not train in anything? Nice critical reasoning, maybe most here don't want to brag about their years of ninja training. BTW I've been training on and off for 10 years and the off times were due to numerous international moves and being picky about where I train.

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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby TheCanadian » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:03 am

Madeline236 wrote:
Jim Street wrote:

I am guessing that my comment "stop talking and start training" has caused some discomfort on the forum maybe?? That's good. It's raised some attention on the threat. I am not pointing fingers at anyone in particular but the harshness of this may be tough to swallow for the "talkers". Hey, the truth hurts.


So if someone questions you on your posts you assume they must not train in anything? Nice critical reasoning, maybe most here don't want to brag about their years of ninja training. BTW I've been training on and off for 10 years and the off times were due to numerous international moves and being picky about where I train.


I was trained by a secret squad of underground ninjas since before I was born. I specialise in the five point palm exploding heart attack and I don't brag about it :D




Haha Sorry couldn't resist

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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby Musashi » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:11 pm

Madeline236 wrote:I was more confused about his example that implied that police training did not go further than teaching how to deal with compliant suspects.


When I originally posted my comments and opinions on the Blue Line forum regarding police "use of force" training in relation to compliant and non-compliant offenders I was typing to what I believed to be a police and law enforcement audience. In the past few days I've had an opportunity to surf the forum and it would appear that posters come from a wide range of backgrounds..not just law enforcement. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that some on here may not be the biggest fans of police or the work we do... I would prefer not to discuss police training procedures further on this open forum but would be more than happy to share my opinions on the P.O. side, Madeline.

I am guessing that my comment "stop talking and start training" has caused some discomfort on the forum maybe?? That's good. It's raised some attention on the threat. I am not pointing fingers at anyone in particular but the harshness of this may be tough to swallow for the "talkers". Hey, the truth hurts.


So if someone questions you on your posts you assume they must not train in anything? Nice critical reasoning, maybe most here don't want to brag about their years of ninja training. BTW I've been training on and off for 10 years and the off times were due to numerous international moves and being picky about where I train.


I don't assume anything. My comments are based on my observations in the stations where I've worked and in my interactions and discussions with my colleagues. I'll put it out there to every person I work with and not feel the slightest bit of un-easiness when I say the truth hurts and bites those who neglect training the hardest..The bottom line is this - defensive tactics/ use of force, like shooting, warrant writing and interview and interrogation are perishable skills that need to be practiced consistantly. Not just talked about. If you don't stay sharp you stand to lose your edge... (If you've never put the work in then you likely don't have much of an edge to work with) In the event that you are challenged, you or others you work with may be injured and it could end up being a really bad day..on the street or in the court room. I understand that we can't train for everything and it's unrealistic to expect every cop to hit the road every day with his ninja "A" game..but no game is unacceptable.

In my post above, I continued in the same paragraph asking others if they had canvassed others in their detatchments or stations regarding training. From my observations and experience, the number of people who train in anything outside of their annual requalification training is low. This is my point and I don't get it? Are your numbers different? How many people on your shift/ platoon are dedicated to some form of martial arts training, Madeline?

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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby Madeline236 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:22 am

Musashi wrote:
In my post above, I continued in the same paragraph asking others if they had canvassed others in their detatchments or stations regarding training. From my observations and experience, the number of people who train in anything outside of their annual requalification training is low. This is my point and I don't get it? Are your numbers different? How many people on your shift/ platoon are dedicated to some form of martial arts training, Madeline?


It's not something I generally ask people at work. Last time I can think of any real survey of outside training was taken was in training and about 8 - 10 of 25 had some prior background in something.

Maybe a better way to lay things out is how many LEO's feel their training has not served them as well as it could on the job? And of those saying anything less than "well" how many took action to improve their training / safety? I mean if the training one gets is serving them well then I can see why they would not be running out to get more. If they feel safe with what they have then I'm not going to be telling them to go get more.

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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby Kopparoo2b » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:08 pm

Madeline, I didn't think you were an LEO?
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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby Musashi » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:50 pm

Madeline236 wrote:
It's not something I generally ask people at work. Last time I can think of any real survey of outside training was taken was in training and about 8 - 10 of 25 had some prior background in something.


I've never formally surveyed anyone at work on their background in martial arts. But from working along side of guys and girls, the topic inveriably comes up. Through daily interaction and dialogue with colleagues, I can also tell you who the avid golfers are, who played junior hockey, who the hardcore fishermen are, etc..This is the stuff we talk about when we aren't talking shop, no? Also, from training in-house and/or running calls, I think it's pretty easy to differentiate between the officers that are confident in their skills when the dust flies and those who are less confident.

Madeline236 wrote:
Maybe a better way to lay things out is how many LEO's feel their training has not served them as well as it could on the job? And of those saying anything less than "well" how many took action to improve their training / safety? I mean if the training one gets is serving them well then I can see why they would not be running out to get more. If they feel safe with what they have then I'm not going to be telling them to go get more.


Fair enough, Madeline. I suppose that if at the end of Basic Constable Training, new officers feel confident in their ability to apply their use of force skills on the street when the time comes, then you are right. There would be no need to follow up with additional training outside of that provided by their agency.

Provincial adequacy standards may differ slightly across the country, I'm not sure, and time allotted to use of force training may vary. I can only speak based on my experience in Ontario..I'm thinking we trained DT about twice a week for 13 weeks at the college for a total of about 50 hours..Not exactly sure..but this is a good ball park number. Each agency may allot a different amount of time to DT and use of force during their in-house annual training...Again I cant speak for every service but at our place I think we do about 4 hours every year. This is not a considerable amount of time. In a lot of traditional martial arts, this amount of time would get you to your first belt..

For the record, I've worked with guys who have never taken a martial arts class in their life...They are just real tough dudes! I will never underestimate the core strength and grit possessed by farm boys, rugby players or crossfit maniacs.. I take great comfort knowing that they've got my back!! :)

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Madeline236
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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby Madeline236 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:29 pm

Kopparoo2b wrote:Madeline, I didn't think you were an LEO?


Depends on semantics and the person you ask on here I guess. If we go by this forum's definition, used to get into the LEO private section, then yes I am. Corrections trains in and uses use of force and defensive tactics so I'm not totally commenting out of thin air.

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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby Madeline236 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:44 pm

Musashi wrote:I've never formally surveyed anyone at work on their background in martial arts. But from working along side of guys and girls, the topic inveriably comes up. Through daily interaction and dialogue with colleagues, I can also tell you who the avid golfers are, who played junior hockey, who the hardcore fishermen are, etc..This is the stuff we talk about when we aren't talking shop, no? Also, from training in-house and/or running calls, I think it's pretty easy to differentiate between the officers that are confident in their skills when the dust flies and those who are less confident.



Unfortunately the closest things I've run by in the form of an intellectual conversation about MA at work was along the lines of "Who would win in a fight, Bruce Lee of Steven Segal?"

Sadly some personal things discussed between staff end up being known by the inmates, even when no inmate was nearby to hear it........! So most guys don't want to go on about their fighting skills. One guy I know fights pro-mma and I know he wants it kept secret to save inmates wanting to test themselves.

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Re: what kind of martial arts?

Postby John014 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:36 am

Survivor mentality is a good thing to have. You never know who you are going to come across and what they know, why not be that much more prepared.
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