Toronto police rolling out carbines

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
Ducatiram
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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby Ducatiram » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:32 pm

DonutMan wrote:Carbines?

How about issuing all front-line offers conducted energy devices then we can talk about carbines.

I'm actually shocked that Toronto Police haven't already been carrying them. Bot Carbines and CEW. I thought the RCMP was behind everyone, but I believe the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary don't carry carbines or CEWS either, along with many other Municipal forces.. From what I've been told the C8's are in the works for the RNC, and perhaps CEW's. These two tool are definitely the best things available to a member. They both result in less injuries, and more people giving in. Only thing that works better is a dog.

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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby A.T.R. » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:47 pm

CEWs are expensive.
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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby DonutMan » Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:04 am

A.T.R. wrote:CEWs are expensive.


I recall reading a CEW was requested by the responsible PC prior to Sammy Yatim being shot. Perhaps if the responsible PC had had the CEW he wanted, the result would have been different. The 8 million + legal costs TPS will undoubtedly pay out over the lawsuit probably could equip every TPS officer with a CEW.

Then again, I'm speculating here.

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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby Tommy » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:21 pm

VanSmack wrote:People don't know what the fuck they want, other than to be unhappy.


Ugh... This....

Van, do you think something like the proposed Less lethal shotgun's (Which TPS is planning to do with the 870's they are taking out of the cars and replacing with Carbines) Would be better or worse than a CEW as far as a less lethal alternative when faced with edged weapons?

I can appreciate if you would prefer not to discuss specifics on the public side or even outside the police only forum, but I'm genuinely curious since I would love to see my agency get CEW's as well... (I'd really like them to let all our armed officers carry in all modes, first though but I digress.... )
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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby IndictableChaser » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:01 am

Tommy wrote:
VanSmack wrote:People don't know what the fuck they want, other than to be unhappy.


Ugh... This....

Van, do you think something like the proposed Less lethal shotgun's (Which TPS is planning to do with the 870's they are taking out of the cars and replacing with Carbines) Would be better or worse than a CEW as far as a less lethal alternative when faced with edged weapons?

I can appreciate if you would prefer not to discuss specifics on the public side or even outside the police only forum, but I'm genuinely curious since I would love to see my agency get CEW's as well... (I'd really like them to let all our armed officers carry in all modes, first though but I digress.... )


I know you didn't ask me so you can tell me to F off, but additional tools in the toolbox and expanded training is always a good thing. I wish we had tasers, or LTL beanbags. I can name a few incidents at Pearson where they would have definitely been put to use, rather then waiting for peel police (and no I'm not knocking them, they're busy and can't be everywhere all the time)
Last edited by IndictableChaser on Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby BravoZulu » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:49 pm

VanSmack wrote: People don't know what the fuck they want, other than to be unhappy.



Quote of the year right there. Simple, Direct, Accurate.

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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby Tommy » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:56 pm

IndictableChaser wrote:I know you didn't ask me so you can tell me to F off, but additional tools in the toolbox and expanded training is always a good thing. I wish we had tasers, or LTL beanbags. I can name a few incidents at Pierson where they would have definitely been put to use, rather than waiting for peel police (and no I'm not knocking them, they're busy and can't be everywhere all the time)



All good brother. I get it. :thumbsup: And I completely appreciate the struggles you guys face there. I can't imagine having to deal with that on the daily... My port is pretty good with letting us do our job most days.
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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby Bitterman » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:29 am

Ducatiram wrote:
DonutMan wrote:Carbines?

How about issuing all front-line offers conducted energy devices then we can talk about carbines.


I'm actually shocked that Toronto Police haven't already been carrying them..



I see what you did there...
Admit nothing.
Deny everything.
Make counter accusations...

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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby Punisher-One » Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:55 pm

DonutMan wrote:
A.T.R. wrote:CEWs are expensive.


I recall reading a CEW was requested by the responsible PC prior to Sammy Yatim being shot. Perhaps if the responsible PC had had the CEW he wanted, the result would have been different. The 8 million + legal costs TPS will undoubtedly pay out over the lawsuit probably could equip every TPS officer with a CEW.

Then again, I'm speculating here.


"Toronto’s Police Services Board voted Thursday not to approve a request from Chief Bill Blair for $320,000 for an additional 184 conducted energy weapons for frontline officers." - November 2013

They asked for more and the board didn't want to pay.

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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby devilwoman » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:36 am

I've come to the conclusion that no matter what police do, what they wear, what they carry, it will cause someone, somewhere to take offence or be intimidated.

It seems the current target of hatred is TPS. Even where police officers live, including the most recent batch of recruits, has come under fire because some people think that in order to properly care for and serve the community, you need to reside there (half the new recruits live elsewhere). No one makes such ludicrous comments about doctors who live elsewhere not providing the same level of care to people in Toronto hospitals, or firefighters who live elsewhere (I've heard of one TFS member who comes in from Quebec for his shifts) not providing quality service, etc,. If anyone made the same argument about teachers, doctors, firefighters, social workers, people would lose their minds.

Load bearing vests are one of the hot topics right now, likening them to appearing too tactical for everyday use. No one clues in that those vests have been proven by doctors to remove an incredible amount of lower back pressure (I believe the numbers were: LBV causes a 4% spinal curve vs regular vest w/loaded belt causes 16%+ spinal curve). I would hazard a guess that most police would much prefer to be wearing just a sidearm, baton and cuffs vs all of that plus vest, CEWs (for some), OC, second set of cuffs, body cams, 2 mag pouches, etc.. Unfortunately, the current environment doesn't allow for it. Adaptation and evolution is what all creatures do when dealing with changes in their environment and, unfortunately, the evolution of a police officer is a direct result of the environment they "live" in.

If people want to blame anyone for the change in the police culture, they merely have to look to themselves and their communities, as police are merely adapting to deal with what those communities are throwing at them.
Last edited by devilwoman on Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby Longarm9 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:03 am

devilwoman wrote:I've come to the conclusion that no matter what police do, what they wear, what they carry, it will cause someone, somewhere to take offence or be intimidated.


I think you're absolutely correct on this, and it's something that annoys me to no end. I've NEVER been intimidated by even the biggest, burliest, meanest looking police officer because quite frankly I'm not a shit rat. I'm not afraid of the police because I don't break the law, and I know that in this country (and the USA) they are extremely trust worthy. The only people who are intimidated by the police are dirtbags or people who have recently arrived from countries where the police are not at all trust worthy, and they're merely projecting their past experience.
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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby Punisher-One » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:04 am

Well said Devilwoman and Longarm9. I agree with both of you.

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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby Bitterman » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:05 am

Any hoopla re police having assault rifles (yeah yeah... but that's what they call my "patrol carbine" ) shall pass once folks get bored.

Hell... I recall hoopla and had wringing when TPS got rid of their widow - makers and went to tge more open style retention holster.

'Offended some folks because... "OMG, you can actually see the butt of the revolver...!"
Admit nothing.
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Re: Toronto police rolling out carbines

Postby IndictableChaser » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:04 am

Bitterman wrote:Any hoopla re police having assault rifles (yeah yeah... but that's what they call my "patrol carbine" ) shall pass once folks get bored.

Hell... I recall hoopla and had wringing when TPS got rid of their widow - makers and went to tge more open style retention holster.

'Offended some folks because... "OMG, you can actually see the butt of the revolver...!"


Or something that hits home to me, "Border guards with guns!!! ZOMG"
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

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... Got to. It’s America, man."


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