Union Station TTC Video

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IndictableChaser
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Union Station TTC Video

Postby IndictableChaser » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:50 pm

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/31/st ... constables

Between the idiotic actions of the two individuals resisting and assaulting the constables, bystanders shouting stupid shit and antagonizing the officers, and the comments posted on the sun's webpage I haven't seen such a conclave of minstrels in a great deal of time.

Kudos to the transit cops doing the best they could while outnumbered.
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby Criminal Psych » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:43 pm

IndictableChaser wrote:http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/31/startling-video-shows-altercation-with-ttc-constables

Between the idiotic actions of the two individuals resisting and assaulting the constables, bystanders shouting stupid shit and antagonizing the officers, and the comments posted on the sun's webpage I haven't seen such a conclave of minstrels in a great deal of time.

Kudos to the transit cops doing the best they could while outnumbered.


If you look at their patches they're actually transit enforcement officers, not special constables. Pretty much all the media outlets reported that wrong.

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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby Punisher-One » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:52 pm

Criminal Psych wrote:If you look at their patches they're actually transit enforcement officers, not special constables. Pretty much all the media outlets reported that wrong.


Still have arrest authority on TTC property.

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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby housingcop » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:24 pm

Criminal Psych wrote:
IndictableChaser wrote:http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/31/startling-video-shows-altercation-with-ttc-constables

Between the idiotic actions of the two individuals resisting and assaulting the constables, bystanders shouting stupid shit and antagonizing the officers, and the comments posted on the sun's webpage I haven't seen such a conclave of minstrels in a great deal of time.

Kudos to the transit cops doing the best they could while outnumbered.


If you look at their patches they're actually transit enforcement officers, not special constables. Pretty much all the media outlets reported that wrong.



The current T.T.C patch "Transit Enforcement Unit" has been maintained despite many T.T.C officers being re-appointed as Special Constables. Having said that, it does not matter what is says on the patch... if you are informed by ANYONE that you are under arrest and you resist that arrest then you deserve any lawful response to that aggression.

The media and politician often speak out of turn and it is obvious that they know little about what they speak of.... :roll:

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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby Criminal Psych » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:41 pm

I wasn't trying to insinuate that they were unjustified or in the wrong in any way. I was just pointing out an inaccuracy in the reporting as I assumed that they would switch them back to the special constable patches if they were sworn in as such.

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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby zjswain » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:45 pm

Any LEO that I know in the same position would have taken the same actions. In my opinion, excellent job by the officers showing restraint because we all know what they wanted (and what we wanted) to do.

Any politician, or idiot behind a desk can sit there and scrutinize the whole thing and say what was right or wrong, but in the end... if they were in that position, we all know they would need a change of underwear.

Officers have been placed on administration duty pending the PSS investigation. Lets hope they are cleared, and they can just get on with their lives, and go back to doing their job.

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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby IndictableChaser » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:33 pm

Criminal Psych wrote:
IndictableChaser wrote:http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/31/startling-video-shows-altercation-with-ttc-constables

Between the idiotic actions of the two individuals resisting and assaulting the constables, bystanders shouting stupid shit and antagonizing the officers, and the comments posted on the sun's webpage I haven't seen such a conclave of minstrels in a great deal of time.

Kudos to the transit cops doing the best they could while outnumbered.


If you look at their patches they're actually transit enforcement officers, not special constables. Pretty much all the media outlets reported that wrong.


S/Cst appointments have been reinstated. If you took the time to perform a quick search you would see that. Pretty much your statement is wrong.

From a while back.
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/12/tt ... tatus-back

You can still be a transit enforcement (transit safety) and a special (Cough go transit)


And even still, if it was a security guard it doesn't make the arrest any less valid..or acceptable to become assaulted.
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby Criminal Psych » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:19 pm

IndictableChaser wrote:
Criminal Psych wrote:
IndictableChaser wrote:http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/31/startling-video-shows-altercation-with-ttc-constables

Between the idiotic actions of the two individuals resisting and assaulting the constables, bystanders shouting stupid shit and antagonizing the officers, and the comments posted on the sun's webpage I haven't seen such a conclave of minstrels in a great deal of time.

Kudos to the transit cops doing the best they could while outnumbered.


If you look at their patches they're actually transit enforcement officers, not special constables. Pretty much all the media outlets reported that wrong.


S/Cst appointments have been reinstated. If you took the time to perform a quick search you would see that. Pretty much your statement is wrong.

From a while back.
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/12/tt ... tatus-back

You can still be a transit enforcement (transit safety) and a special (Cough go transit)


And even still, if it was a security guard it doesn't make the arrest any less valid..or acceptable to become assaulted.


Yes, my mistake. As I said above, I thought they would switch those who were reinstated back to special constable patches, rather than sticking with the transit enforcement unit ones.

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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby midge » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:08 am

IndictableChaser wrote:S/Cst appointments have been reinstated. If you took the time to perform a quick search you would see that. Pretty much your statement is wrong.

From a while back.
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/12/tt ... tatus-back

You can still be a transit enforcement (transit safety) and a special (Cough go transit)


And even still, if it was a security guard it doesn't make the arrest any less valid..or acceptable to become assaulted.


I can't verify how accurate this is, but a news outlet reported yesterday that at the time both officers had not yet been sworn in as S/Csts yet. One has since been sworn in.

But, again, that doesn't affect their ability to arrest in this situation.

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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby Von » Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:59 am

midge wrote:
IndictableChaser wrote:S/Cst appointments have been reinstated. If you took the time to perform a quick search you would see that. Pretty much your statement is wrong.

From a while back.
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/12/tt ... tatus-back

You can still be a transit enforcement (transit safety) and a special (Cough go transit)


And even still, if it was a security guard it doesn't make the arrest any less valid..or acceptable to become assaulted.


I can't verify how accurate this is, but a news outlet reported yesterday that at the time both officers had not yet been sworn in as S/Csts yet. One has since been sworn in.

But, again, that doesn't affect their ability to arrest in this situation.


As per Andy Byford both Transit Enforcement Officers were not appointed as Special Constables at the time of the incident, although one of the two has now successfully passed his training & received his appointment.

The optics of this incident were pretty bad, even if the force used was reasonable given what these two criminal thugs had done. I question whether repeated close fisted strikes to the face was the best option though. Obviously it's easy to criticize with the benefit of hindsight from behind the safety of the computer screen, but in the limited UoF training I've had, that particular situation would have not called for striking the resisting subjects face.

Perhaps I'm completely wrong, but once it becomes evidence that the subject is actively resisting/combative, would it not be better to disengage and escalate to use of his baton? I've seen the mere drawing of one change someone's fighting attitude real quick. I know in the video it seems that TEO #1 told his partner to grab the guy that assaulted him, but engaging in two separate 1v1 brawls seems like a poor officer safety decision. Much safer to try to get them detained one at a time.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke

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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby IndictableChaser » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:48 am

What is it you do again? Because deploying a baton (even closed mode strikes) where you are surrounded and outnumbered is an easy way to get it taken and shoved up you ass (pardon my French) or clocking an innocent bystander
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby cityblue » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:56 am

Von wrote:but engaging in two separate 1v1 brawls seems like a poor officer safety decision. Much safer to try to get them detained one at a time.


Hooooooboy. I'm not going to touch the rest of your post because it's filled with a lot of ignorant comments and statements that I'm certain someone else with less of a filter than I have will address.

As to the one bit here: that's a great plan, unless, of course, the one you aren't engaged with is throwing punches and attempting to prevent you from making your lawful arrest. Can't exactly leave him there to float about to try and land a perfect knock-out shot that might prevent you or your partner from going home safely.

You've already admitted you have limited Use of Force training in your own post. It may be time for you to stop second guessing these officers based on some extraordinarily one-sided reporting and editing by the media when you combine it with your lack of experience in dealing with these type of force situations.

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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby gotchya » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:25 am

At the end of the day every use of force incident is going to have its share of armchair quarterbacks (justified or not). That is why they have debriefs and annual training, to learn how to deal with situations. The officer does the best they can with what they've got. It is always easy to talk about what ought to have happened, what could have happened, what should have happened. Use of force incidents are dynamic situations that are less than ideal.

In short, simple because you (or anyone else) or I would have done it differently, does not mean the officer did it wrong.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."-Burke, Edmund
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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby dusty » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:47 pm

The roof in the subway platform area of Union station is very low, barely over six feet high I would guess, and it would be impossible to use a baton there. The guy reverted to what he knew and won the fight, full stop. I fully support the way they handled those two drunken clowns.
I personally did it for the money and the glory... my disappointment was tempered by the fact that I got a gun and a fast car-VanB

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Re: Union Station TTC Video

Postby Von » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:22 pm

IndictableChaser wrote:What is it you do again? Because deploying a baton (even closed mode strikes) where you are surrounded and outnumbered is an easy way to get it taken and shoved up you ass (pardon my French) or clocking an innocent bystander



cityblue wrote:
Von wrote:but engaging in two separate 1v1 brawls seems like a poor officer safety decision. Much safer to try to get them detained one at a time.


Hooooooboy. I'm not going to touch the rest of your post because it's filled with a lot of ignorant comments and statements that I'm certain someone else with less of a filter than I have will address.

As to the one bit here: that's a great plan, unless, of course, the one you aren't engaged with is throwing punches and attempting to prevent you from making your lawful arrest. Can't exactly leave him there to float about to try and land a perfect knock-out shot that might prevent you or your partner from going home safely.

You've already admitted you have limited Use of Force training in your own post. It may be time for you to stop second guessing these officers based on some extraordinarily one-sided reporting and editing by the media when you combine it with your lack of experience in dealing with these type of force situations.


Thanks for your input guys. I was asking because I'm not an expert. I'm not trying to second guess the officers or criticize their decisions, I was merely making some observations based on my limited knowledge and experience. That's why I asked "would it have been better to do x?", rather than accusing the officer to excessive force like all the brain dead sheeple in the media have been doing.

But thank you for your explanations.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke


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