BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
dira necessitas
Lord of the Poobahs
Posts: 1463
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:05 pm
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby dira necessitas » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:22 pm

recceguy wrote:
IndictableChaser wrote:Yet BC is also where the police can't lay charges :?

Except grc's, because that's stupid :mrgreen:


What? Can't lay charges?


Same as us with the NDA
I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but let's take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself.

User avatar
IndictableChaser
Veteran Member
Posts: 273
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:20 pm
Location: Halfway Between the Gutter and the Stars
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby IndictableChaser » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:08 pm

th wrote:
recceguy wrote:
IndictableChaser wrote:Yet BC is also where the police can't lay charges :?

Except grc's, because that's stupid :mrgreen:


What? Can't lay charges?

Police recommend charges. Crown makes the decision to actually lay the charge.


Exactly
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

shootemup
Sage Member
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:02 am
Location: Fraser Valley, B.C.
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby shootemup » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:26 pm

In BC you've got peace officer designations for inhouse hospital security in some places, gaming enforcement, liquor control, SPCA, civilian court liaison officers, civilian evidence custodians, forestry compliance, etc.
Jackbooted Cig Enforcer

User avatar
IndictableChaser
Veteran Member
Posts: 273
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:20 pm
Location: Halfway Between the Gutter and the Stars
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby IndictableChaser » Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:17 pm

shootemup wrote:In BC you've got peace officer designations for inhouse hospital security in some places, gaming enforcement, liquor control, SPCA, civilian court liaison officers, civilian evidence custodians, forestry compliance, etc.


Having done that in another life I can attest that it's a very good thing to have extra powers, tools and training.
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

User avatar
Von
Rookie Member
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:50 pm
Location: Toronto, ON
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby Von » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:12 pm

IndictableChaser wrote:
shootemup wrote:In BC you've got peace officer designations for inhouse hospital security in some places, gaming enforcement, liquor control, SPCA, civilian court liaison officers, civilian evidence custodians, forestry compliance, etc.


Having done that in another life I can attest that it's a very good thing to have extra powers, tools and training.


Do you mean that some in house hospital security departments have special constable status in BC?
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke

shootemup
Sage Member
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:02 am
Location: Fraser Valley, B.C.
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby shootemup » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:43 pm

I don't have first hand knowledge but here's a job description:
https://viha.hua.hrsmart.com/ats/js_job ... eqid=14868

From the posting:
Eligibility for certification as a Peace Officer. A Police Officers' Physical Ability Test (POPAT) time suitable to the organization.
Jackbooted Cig Enforcer

User avatar
IndictableChaser
Veteran Member
Posts: 273
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:20 pm
Location: Halfway Between the Gutter and the Stars
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby IndictableChaser » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:35 pm

Von wrote:
IndictableChaser wrote:
shootemup wrote:In BC you've got peace officer designations for inhouse hospital security in some places, gaming enforcement, liquor control, SPCA, civilian court liaison officers, civilian evidence custodians, forestry compliance, etc.


Having done that in another life I can attest that it's a very good thing to have extra powers, tools and training.


Do you mean that some in house hospital security departments have special constable status in BC?


Sorry let me rephrase, I worked hospital security, in Ontario. Where I would be in the shit when extra tools and powers would have been beneficial at the time.

Alberta has this also http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/careers/page346.asp
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

cityblue
Veteran Member
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby cityblue » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:22 am

IndictableChaser wrote:
Sorry let me rephrase, I worked hospital security, in Ontario. Where I would be in the shit when extra tools and powers would have been beneficial at the time.

Alberta has this also http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/careers/page346.asp


Alberta Health Services' are Alberta Community Peace Officers with authority under the Mental Health Act, Gaming/Liquor Act, some Traffic Safety Act section, the various trespassing acts, and a few others. Lots of great authority to deal with problems on/around their sites. Also a great stepping stone up to the next stage - I can think of at least dozen guys who I worked with during my two years there who've gone on the EPS, CPS, RCMP, Sheriffs, CSC.

fatboy
Rookie Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:32 pm
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby fatboy » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:17 pm

IndictableChaser wrote:Sorry let me rephrase, I worked hospital security, in Ontario. Where I would be in the shit when extra tools and powers would have been beneficial at the time.

Alberta has this also http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/careers/page346.asp



Also worth mentioning, this part "The pay scale for protective services officers ranges from $25.37 to $34.92 per hour for more experienced employees." is also only referring to the entry level CPOII positions. CPOI's can either be on site, or be mobile officers, and they start at around $32 these days I think(it's been a while). Team Leaders have a slightly different salary structure(due to not being part of the union), but range from about $32-$45 hourly(this will also be changing when the management salary freeze ends).

As far as security type work is concerned, its one of the best jobs I've seen. They don't let you carry OC despite having to go through the certification of getting sprayed, and they limit your powers a bit(public intox is a huge bitch to apprehend for due to a few issues in the past - it can take up half of your shift.). It's a little more liberal of an organization than I think most people interested in law enforcement would like, but really, it only makes the job easier in this sort of setting anyway. Tons of hands on incidents, and you can see some pretty wild shit in hospitals.

They've done alot of really cool things with their protective services program.

cityblue
Veteran Member
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby cityblue » Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:34 pm

fatboy wrote:As far as security type work is concerned, its one of the best jobs I've seen.


Exactly. You deal with nearly every type of clientele that patrol constables see and have to learn how to use your verbal skills to be good at your job there. You deal with everything from people with mental illnesses, addictions, children, elderly, homeless, and professionals (doctors, nurses, executives, etc...). There aren't many other security jobs that give you as many transferable skills and experience if you're going on to policing as an end goal. It also has a ton of hands-on situations that help when you get to policing - the shock of violence coming from the elderly grandpa or the 14 year old just isn't there after a few months in the hospital.

They've done alot of really cool things with their protective services program.


Sounds like they've got some more good things coming - new manager in charge of training, equipment, and fleet who has years of experience actually working with patients and the realities of the job there. Should take a good program into a great one.

User avatar
IndictableChaser
Veteran Member
Posts: 273
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:20 pm
Location: Halfway Between the Gutter and the Stars
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby IndictableChaser » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:28 pm

fatboy wrote:
IndictableChaser wrote:Sorry let me rephrase, I worked hospital security, in Ontario. Where I would be in the shit when extra tools and powers would have been beneficial at the time.

Alberta has this also http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/careers/page346.asp



Also worth mentioning, this part "The pay scale for protective services officers ranges from $25.37 to $34.92 per hour for more experienced employees." is also only referring to the entry level CPOII positions. CPOI's can either be on site, or be mobile officers, and they start at around $32 these days I think(it's been a while). Team Leaders have a slightly different salary structure(due to not being part of the union), but range from about $32-$45 hourly(this will also be changing when the management salary freeze ends).

As far as security type work is concerned, its one of the best jobs I've seen. They don't let you carry OC despite having to go through the certification of getting sprayed, and they limit your powers a bit(public intox is a huge bitch to apprehend for due to a few issues in the past - it can take up half of your shift.). It's a little more liberal of an organization than I think most people interested in law enforcement would like, but really, it only makes the job easier in this sort of setting anyway. Tons of hands on incidents, and you can see some pretty wild shit in hospitals.

They've done alot of really cool things with their protective services program.



Curious, why no OC? I know deploying it in a hospital is beyond stupid but there could be plenty of situations where it might be effective.
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

cityblue
Veteran Member
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby cityblue » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:19 am

IndictableChaser wrote:Curious, why no OC? I know deploying it in a hospital is beyond stupid but there could be plenty of situations where it might be effective.


You answered your own question there - deploying inside the hospital is not a great idea.

User avatar
IndictableChaser
Veteran Member
Posts: 273
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:20 pm
Location: Halfway Between the Gutter and the Stars
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby IndictableChaser » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:11 am

cityblue wrote:
IndictableChaser wrote:Curious, why no OC? I know deploying it in a hospital is beyond stupid but there could be plenty of situations where it might be effective.


You answered your own question there - deploying inside the hospital is not a great idea.


Not really. Form 1 transports (MHA act in Ontario, perimeter security, and any other duties not directly inside a hospital.)

Bonus story: I was working at a hospital and long story short a female patient who was being treated had some unwelcome visitors attempt to contact her (I'm sure many of you can figure out the scenario) and were stopped and subsequently arrested in the hospital parking lot (needless to say the male parties were not cooperative), thankfully the hospital always had proper staffing levels, training and tools (as much as a security guard could have ie cuffs and sticks) but in that scenario alone - looking back if the tools were available (cop in a can, X26 - or M26 now....) it would have been greatly beneficial for both the security officers on site, the people who depend on them to stay safe, and the "customers" we had to deal with.

Tis the only reason I asked......

PS: I typed this entire diatribe on my phone, so bear with the punctuation.
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

cityblue
Veteran Member
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby cityblue » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:56 am

IndictableChaser wrote:
cityblue wrote:
IndictableChaser wrote:Curious, why no OC? I know deploying it in a hospital is beyond stupid but there could be plenty of situations where it might be effective.


You answered your own question there - deploying inside the hospital is not a great idea.


Not really. Form 1 transports (MHA act in Ontario, perimeter security, and any other duties not directly inside a hospital.)

Bonus story: I was working at a hospital and long story short a female patient who was being treated had some unwelcome visitors attempt to contact her (I'm sure many of you can figure out the scenario) and were stopped and subsequently arrested in the hospital parking lot (needless to say the male parties were not cooperative), thankfully the hospital always had proper staffing levels, training and tools (as much as a security guard could have ie cuffs and sticks) but in that scenario alone - looking back if the tools were available (cop in a can, X26 - or M26 now....) it would have been greatly beneficial for both the security officers on site, the people who depend on them to stay safe, and the "customers" we had to deal with.

Tis the only reason I asked......

PS: I typed this entire diatribe on my phone, so bear with the punctuation.


I shouldn't have been so flippant with my initial reply - you and I know that there are other situations, but let's not forget that hospital security is always beholden to the whims and wishes of executives who are doctors, nurses, or professional administrators who feel that security and police are just jack-booted thugs. Their perception is that all security officers are poorly-educated idiots who can't be trusted to make safe and sound decisions about force, even when they have no concept of what the Criminal Code and other acts permit. So while there are plenty of times where OC could be used without issue in relation to hospital duties, the horror that the executive has at the idea of force being used prevents that.

User avatar
Sec380CCC
Veteran Member
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:56 pm
Contact:

Re: BC Legislature arming their Security personnel.

Postby Sec380CCC » Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:11 pm

I'm not sure why they list Peace Officer in the Job Description and Basic Security Training as a requirement.

You can't hold SPC status and a Security licence in BC for the same job. They are probably referring to enforcing 494 of the CC and refer to them as Peace Officers. There is no mention of Peace Officer appointments in the Hospital Act and I think the only SPC's in a hospital in BC work at Colony Farms, where the patients are not permitted to leave.

I could be wrong about the hospitals though, not sure. Maybe it's just that one hospital in Victoria BC?


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests