Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
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Punisher-One
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby Punisher-One » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:58 am

Where do you think all these "clean" non-crackhead prostitutes are going to come from?

You are seriously going to tell me that because it is now a "legitimate" business that there is NO OC involvement at all in Australia? I'd challenge the legitimacy of that statement. OC has managed to work it's way into just about every "legitimate" business from auto insurance to clothing donation....you seriously think because a brothel needs to be inspected that OC won't be involved?
Strip clubs are a legitimate business here and they are all mostly run by OC in Canada...I don't see that changing with brothels too.

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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby mack_silent » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:04 pm

What are the actual long term effects of legalizing prostitution?

I'd like to see peer-reviewed research studies that scientifically show the effects of legalizing prostitution to "work".

Crack heads aren't going to stop being crackheads because of ANY law passed, nor are they going to get licensed.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby Gardenfit » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:31 pm

Punisher-One wrote:Where do you think all these "clean" non-crackhead prostitutes are going to come from?

You are seriously going to tell me that because it is now a "legitimate" business that there is NO OC involvement at all in Australia? I'd challenge the legitimacy of that statement. OC has managed to work it's way into just about every "legitimate" business from auto insurance to clothing donation....you seriously think because a brothel needs to be inspected that OC won't be involved?
Strip clubs are a legitimate business here and they are all mostly run by OC in Canada...I don't see that changing with brothels too.


I wish you guys would read the link I provided if you want to debate the issue.

There are two forms of legal sex work in Queensland:
Private work (sole operators) – where a single sex worker works alone – is legal in Queensland, but it is an offence to publicly solicit for the purposes of prostitution.
Sex work conducted in a licensed brothel is legal in Queensland.
Any other form of sex work is illegal in Queensland. This includes unlicensed brothels or parlours, street workers, two sex workers sharing one premises (even if the workers both work alone in split shifts), and out-calls provided by a licensed brothel.


1. Despite popular belief, most prostitutes who work in legal brothels are not "crackheads", not in this country anyway. A lot of them are students,contract workers from Asia, single mothers etc etc

2. OC is more likely to be involved in illegal i.e. unlicensed prostitution. Getting a licence to operate a brothel is very difficult and opens you up to scrutiny. Disqualifying offences are: official corruption, unlawful homicide, rape, abduction, kidnapping, demanding property, benefit or performance of services with threats, offences against morality, offences of prostitution that relate to a child or intellectually impaired person, and various offences under the Migration Act 1985 (C’wlth).

3. What these laws have done is take most of the activity off the street. So it's merely shifting it behind closed doors, regulating it and taxing it.

4. There will always be streetwalkers, but here..where I work they are so few in number. The problem is illegal brothels being set up in hotels/motels by Asians. But.. you'd always get that whether brothels are legal or not.

The point I'm trying to make is that here with effective licensing processes it's extremely difficult for OC for infiltrate the legal brothel industry. But hey...what would I know..I'm only a cop.

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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby Gardenfit » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:37 pm

mack_silent wrote:What are the actual long term effects of legalizing prostitution?

I'd like to see peer-reviewed research studies that scientifically show the effects of legalizing prostitution to "work".

Crack heads aren't going to stop being crackheads because of ANY law passed, nor are they going to get licensed.


Mate at the end of the day, most people don't give a rats ass about prostitutes. All they care about is that it's not in their neighbourhood or on their streets. No matter if it is legal or not you are always going to get someone, whether it's OC or just someone who doesn't want to be regulated try and circumvent the system and either continue to illegally work the streets or illegally set up shop in a motel.

I would argue that regulating this industry, attempting to limit OC involvement and providing a safe and socially acceptable premises for this activity away from the streets would have to impact on it to a degree.

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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby To a T » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:24 am

:ponder:
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby basketcase » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:45 pm

Actually the bedroom stuff was fine. The only legal issues for prostitution in Canada was the stuff talked about in public. Hence thriving escort agencies.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby El Conejo » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:35 pm

Von wrote:Legalize it, regulate it, tax it. Put them all in brothels with security, problem solved.


And what happens to the people who are too young or too diseased to work in the regulated and secured brothels? Will they just disappear?

Nope, they will continue to work illegally in the street and underground and we will now have two sets of problems.

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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby Punisher-One » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:46 pm

Gardenfit wrote:[
2. OC is more likely to be involved in illegal i.e. unlicensed prostitution. Getting a licence to operate a brothel is very difficult and opens you up to scrutiny. Disqualifying offences are: official corruption, unlawful homicide, rape, abduction, kidnapping, demanding property, benefit or performance of services with threats, offences against morality, offences of prostitution that relate to a child or intellectually impaired person, and various offences under the Migration Act 1985 (C’wlth).


OC here in Canada has no problem operating legal strip-joints. They also get licences for their "imported" girls who are being human trafficked.

Legalization DOES NOT cure the problem it just hides it under a veil of "it's not a crime now so the crime stats are down".

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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby gotchya » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:13 am

Von wrote:Who are you or the state for that mater to deem what two consenting individuals do in a bedroom moral or immoral?

While I don't personally agree with prostitution I will defend to the death an individual's right to engage in voluntary economic interaction with another.

There are no "economic rights" per se in Canada. I don't know what you're referring to, can you please explain?
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby Punisher-One » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:28 am

There is always going to be a "sex trade" there is nothing anyone can do about that. That said we should be making it as hard as possible and the penalties as stiff as possible to deter this kind of behavior.

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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby To a T » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:40 am

:roll:
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby gotchya » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:41 pm

To a T wrote:I wouldn't hold your breath. A reply from Von would only be counter "empirical" in nature. Should he decide to respond, one could only assume his response would be an "immature reactionary behavior" based on "negative externalities". This clown has worn out his welcome as far as I'm concerned.


The reason I asked, and continue to wonder about these so called "rights' is because people often (and mistakenly) believe they have "rights" where none exist.

This may very well be a tangent,however, I feel our courts have engaged in liberal interpretation of our Charter, whereas south of the border the courts of exercised "judicial restraint". I find that in Canada we are too quick to expand the Charter, where its drafters perhaps never intended. That is not to say it should not grow to meet our societal needs, but its growth should be tempered by the reminder that with our constitution so too came the provisions allowing its amendment. When unelected judges choose what rights should be incorporated in the Charter they immunize discussion from the public, which seems to be an affront to democracy, taking the decision from the people and giving it to one person. That is not to say the Charter should not grow, simply that growth should not come at the hands of overly liberal interpretations which involve public policy considerations, which in my view are the purview of the people (and by extension their elected representatives).
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down prostitution laws

Postby gotchya » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:57 pm

Gardenfit wrote:Mate at the end of the day, most people don't give a rats ass about prostitutes. All they care about is that it's not in their neighbourhood or on their streets. No matter if it is legal or not you are always going to get someone, whether it's OC or just someone who doesn't want to be regulated try and circumvent the system and either continue to illegally work the streets or illegally set up shop in a motel.

The logic here is somewhat dubious to say the least. People break the law, that doesn't mean we should simply do away with the law. The fact that we have laws against murder and people get killed does not mean that we should do away with murder laws.

If society wishes to outlaw a certain act it has every right to do so, it is the sovereign right of the state (and its people) to do so, provided it does not transgress any constitutionally protected activities/rights.

This in my view is policy decision to made by the Canadian people. While we may look to other countries of similar conditions, we are not bound to follow them, albeit they could serve useful to inform the decision.

Gardenfit wrote:I would argue that regulating this industry, attempting to limit OC involvement and providing a safe and socially acceptable premises for this activity away from the streets would have to impact on it to a degree.

But if people are going to do it regardless of regulation (as per above) then what does it matter, OC is going to do it anyhow?

Perhaps the issue with prostitution is not where it takes place but the underlying moral ills that society wishes to do away with. Perhaps for society its not where prostitution happens, but the fact that it happens at all. Hence why "socially acceptable premises" perhaps doesn't address the entire issue.
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