14 Years - Kidnapping/rape of a minor

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
ThePants
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14 Years - Kidnapping/rape of a minor

Postby ThePants » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:50 pm

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breaki ... 41561.html

Justice officials are seeking a 14-year-prison sentence against a Winnipeg gang associate who randomly carjacked, kidnapped and raped a teenage girl while leading police on a three-hour chase through central Manitoba.

Clay Byron Starr, 22, pleaded guilty to five charges stemming from the June 2011 incident. He appeared in court Tuesday for the start of a sentencing hearing which included testimony from several officers involved in the pursuit.

"This is the type of offence that strikes at the heart of a community and strikes fear in citizens that they, too, could be victims of this type of random act of violence," said Crown attorney Nicole Roch.

Starr, who has a lengthy violent criminal history and is tied to the Manitoba Warriors, claims he has little memory of the attack because he had downed a bottle of vodka and some prescription pills in the preceding hours.

But he admits jumping into a Chevrolet Lumina the 16-year-old girl was sitting in while parked in the Brooklands area of the city. Another teen friend managed to escape before Starr sped away.

The girl managed to call 911 repeatedly from a cell phone while in the back seat, shouting "I don’t want to die." A recording of her dramatic call was played in court Tuesday.

Starr headed west of the city – driving at times as fast as 180 km-h – eventually stopping on Highway 26 where he told the girl to get out of the car. After the girl flagged down a 21-year-old man in a Pontiac Sunfire, Starr returned to the scene and ordered both into the Sunfire, telling them he had a gun.

Starr then then took off in the Sunfire with the girl inside, dragging the 21-year-old man several metres behind the vehicle before he managed to free himself.

After the Sunfire broke down further along Highway 26, Starr raped the girl. He made comments about raping her again and said he was going to kill her by drowning her, court was told.

The girl managed to flee the Sunfire and hide in some dense bush as Starr was trying to steal another truck. She then ran to a neighbouring home for help and called police.

Starr continued to head west, stopping at a Portage gas station where he stole a quad from a locked compound. By that time the Winnipeg police helicopter and numerous unformed members were hot on his trail, thanks to tracking of the kidnapping victim’s cellular phone calls.

Eventually, police in the air and on the ground found Starr hiding near the Portage Diversion. An officer with the canine unit, who testified in court Tuesday, described the dramatic encounter in a swamp which ended with his dog biting Starr in the face and arm.

The Crown read out a victim-impact statement from the teen Tuesday which describes the physical and emotional trauma she has suffered. The sentencing hearing is expected to continue Friday with submissions from Starr’s lawyers.



Sigh. Why exactly is so little attention paid to switching to consecutive sentencing for cases like this? :rant:

Anywho, I would buy that K9 a drink, glad someone got a piece of this guy.

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Ziggy Stardust
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Re: 14 Years - Kidnapping/rape of a minor

Postby Ziggy Stardust » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:09 pm

You've hit on an issue that I believe needs attention. Consecutive sentencing. It can work withing our existing legal framework but sadly, it's rarely applied.

You're right VanSmack, but he could get 25 years.
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Re: 14 Years - Kidnapping/rape of a minor

Postby ThePants » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:13 pm

VanSmack wrote:
ThePants wrote:
Sigh. Why exactly is so little attention paid to switching to consecutive sentencing for cases like this? :rant:


Likely because trying to plea bargain a guy into accepting 50 years in the can isn't going to get you very far, and going to trial basically causes the victim of the rape to have to basically open herself to reliving it again frame-by-frame, only to follow that up by having the defense lawyer emotionally eviscerate her in an effort to damage her credibility. Having sat in on several plea bargaining sessions, there's always way more that goes into it than just "You did XYZ, plead guilty an accept ABC punishment." The considerations are also far beyond whether or not you think you can get a conviction, and even if you did get a conviction and sought a consecutive sentence for everything the guy was found guilty of, the actual likelihood that a judge would go along with it is extremely unlikely. This isn't the US where people get 99 year sentences.


That makes sense - but with consecutive sentencing they could still plead out to a series of lesser charges and still hit him full on stealing the ATV, resisting arrest, fleeing, auto theft, assault - without putting the girl on the stand. Maybe allow victims in sexual assaults to provide written statements for the court, or disallow cross-examining minors in sex-assault cases. I don't know. Something better, anyway.

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Re: 14 Years - Kidnapping/rape of a minor

Postby CourtOfficer » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:32 pm

It brings up the old argument... If his time is going to be concurrent then why not try to escape, resist the Officer, fail to attend court or any other myriad of offences that are often brought together as "one criminal event". Where is the deterrent? You might as well give escape a try if you're just gonna do time for the substantive offence.

CO

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Re: 14 Years - Kidnapping/rape of a minor

Postby Ziggy Stardust » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:38 pm

CourtOfficer wrote:It brings up the old argument... If his time is going to be concurrent then why not try to escape, resist the Officer, fail to attend court or any other myriad of offences that are often brought together as "one criminal event". Where is the deterrent? You might as well give escape a try if you're just gonna do time for the substantive offence.

CO

Hammer hits nail on head.

For the sake of all, an offender like this needs to be kept locked up for as long as possible. Given what we have to work with in this country, consecutive sentencing seems to me to be the "shortest path between two points".
Last edited by Ziggy Stardust on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 14 Years - Kidnapping/rape of a minor

Postby GPZ » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:44 pm

Ziggy Stardust wrote:
CourtOfficer wrote:It brings up the old argument... If his time is going to be concurrent then why not try to escape, resist the Officer, fail to attend court or any other myriad of offences that are often brought together as "one criminal event". Where is the deterrent? You might as well give escape a try if you're just gonna do time for the substantive offence.

CO

Hammer hits nail on head.


Yes

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Re: 14 Years - Kidnapping/rape of a minor

Postby BravoZulu » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:59 pm

VanSmack wrote:Alternately one could apply the same argument that one would apply for the three strikes rule, if a guy knows that he's already on the hook for a couple things that are going to put him away for a considerably long time then there's no incentive for him to surrender without violence when the police attempt to apprehend him, and there's all the more reason for him to do whatever is necessary in order to evade capture. If you know you're gonna go down for close to 25 years anyway, and you also know that the maximum time you can do in this country is 25 years, then what's really gonna stop you from killing someone knowing that at the end of the day you'd already maxed out on years anyway, especially if doing so gives you any chance whatsoever of escape?


Which also brings us to the point....if you kill one person you might as well kill a few more because they'll be freebies, with the exception of the rare DO designation.

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Re: 14 Years - Kidnapping/rape of a minor

Postby red_coat » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:51 am

VanSmack wrote:
BravoZulu wrote:Which also brings us to the point....if you kill one person you might as well kill a few more because they'll be freebies, with the exception of the rare DO designation.

BZ


So are you arguing that there should be consecutive sentencing, or that we should increase the maximum amount of years represented in a life sentence? I agree that 25 years doesn't seem like much in exchange for a life, and even less when compared to more than one life, but are we still in teh rehabilitation business, at least even a little bit, or are we simply saying we want to rehabilitate them while in all actuality we are just trying to warehouse them for as long as possible before releasing them back into the world? If we actually want to rehabilitate and re-integrate offenders as productive members of society, 25 years is a pretty long time in terms of therapy sessions. All cynicism aside, those are the things that our corrections systems are supposed to be trying to do with these people.


I was always under the understanding that life in prison is life in prison, but that you are eligible for parole after the certain amount of time spent in custody. ie 25 years for murder 1, at least 10 for murder 2.... but even if released will be on a shitload of conditions, for the rest of your life....?

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Re: 14 Years - Kidnapping/rape of a minor

Postby CourtOfficer » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:55 am

You are correct. You're on parole forever. We once dealt with a guy who had lost his parole AFTER his 25 years on NINE occasions, the last of which he attacked an OPP with a crowbar. Go back for a bit, kicked out again, repeat...

CO

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Re: 14 Years - Kidnapping/rape of a minor

Postby Punisher-One » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:00 am

Certain people chose a lifestyle where no amount of effort or resources can "rehabilitate" them.

Can a youth who steals a car or does a bit of shoplifting be rehabilitated....or should they at least get the opportunity? Absolutely.

Can a kidnapping, child rapist or a multiple murderer be rehabilitated....probably not....in my opinion there are people where we, as a society should realize we need to lock them up and throw away the key to keep others safe. Paul BERNARDO, Charles MANSON, etc are examples of this.

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Re: 14 Years - Kidnapping/rape of a minor

Postby ThePants » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:45 am

VanSmack wrote:I should also point out that the majority of voters in this country still want to believe in the rehabilitation principles upon which our corrections system are supposed to be built upon. Tagging a guy for the max sentence up to 25 years on a bunch of stuff that probably fall short of the same degree of seriousness as a murder (not necessarily using the above example as the hypothetical situation here) says that as a society that we are basically embracing rehabilitation for some, unless they commit more than one or two crimes before police are able to catch him, in which case we will just lock them up for as long as possible.


I definitely agree with the principles of rehabilitation, but our Corrections system needs to be tiered beyond the current federal/provincial split. Every nice idea costs money though - not to mention the need for expanded mental health resources. I don't see rehabilitation as a short term project, one size fits all operation. It could very well take 15 years to turn some people around - and that depends wholly on whether or not they are interested in being rehabilitated.

VanSmack wrote:And to the guy who suggested they could take a plea deal on the rape and kidnap charges and proceed with a trial on the remaining charges and then hammer him with the max sentence upon conviction, I suggest you gain a better working knowledge of how criminal proceedings operate in this country before you comment further.


Point taken.


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