A nation of $100,000 firefighters

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
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48highlander
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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby 48highlander » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:43 pm

Respond Wayne wrote: there is a pretty good chance you will die within a few years after a career of breathing in toxic crap!


For the guys who got on a few decades ago, that may surely be the case. But for someone joining say Toronto in the last few years, where (depending on the year) actual fires only make up 1% of calls, the career of breathing in toxic fumes doesn't really wash.

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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby shootemup » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:13 pm

In my neck of the woods the local FD has a paid Chief, and the rest are paid-on-call or volunteer. They are literally the basement savers, unless you live right in town or you call on a Tuesday night (practice night) - but where I live I understand the costs and accept the risks. Our neighbourhood has its own firefighting arrangments which is one of the farmers coming out with a manure slurry spreader of (mostly) water. Jaws of Life are run by the local SAR volunteers - those are the guys that should be funded in my opinion. Did you know there isn't a medal for SAR in BC, but two for firefighters?
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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby Bitterman » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:39 pm

Tommy wrote:
My EMS Buddy put it to me like this...

The "Circle of healing" is formed and then the "stare of life" is given.




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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby Punisher-One » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:29 pm

I'd be interested to see the statistics on how many calls the FD attends that are actually fires.

I think it is kind of funny....in a sick way....that a lot of FDs are starting to bill individual drivers for attendance at accident calls....where...lets be honest...they are not required to be at all. They could save money by not driving 4 giant diesel fire-engines to a 2-car accident with minor injuries and no fires/spills/need for extrication.

Do I want the FD to come when my house is on fire or I am stuck in my car and need to jaws of life...HELL YES!! However I don't think my tax dollars are best served paying for them (and the giant truck's fuel bill) to attend calls that don't require them.

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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby Shawshank » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:18 pm

Punisher-One wrote:I'd be interested to see the statistics on how many calls the FD attends that are actually fires.

I think it is kind of funny....in a sick way....that a lot of FDs are starting to bill individual drivers for attendance at accident calls....where...lets be honest...they are not required to be at all. They could save money by not driving 4 giant diesel fire-engines to a 2-car accident with minor injuries and no fires/spills/need for extrication.

Do I want the FD to come when my house is on fire or I am stuck in my car and need to jaws of life...HELL YES!! However I don't think my tax dollars are best served paying for them (and the giant truck's fuel bill) to attend calls that don't require them.


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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby bunnel » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:48 pm

Punisher-One wrote:I'd be interested to see the statistics on how many calls the FD attends that are actually fires.


It's not easy to find any information on what they do or don't do. Our Service's web-page, and those of most other police agencies I've seen, is full of statistics, charts, graphs, business plans and every other bit of information and accountability you could imagine for citizens to look over.

The fire department's web page, on the other hand, features pics of its stations and information on the trucks posted at those stations. That's about it.

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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby th » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:17 pm

bunnel wrote:
Punisher-One wrote:I'd be interested to see the statistics on how many calls the FD attends that are actually fires.


It's not easy to find any information on what they do or don't do. Our Service's web-page, and those of most other police agencies I've seen, is full of statistics, charts, graphs, business plans and every other bit of information and accountability you could imagine for citizens to look over.

The fire department's web page, on the other hand, features pics of its stations and information on the trucks posted at those stations. That's about it.

My local fire department releases fairly detailed call statistics in their annual report each year. They are showing 7.7% of calls are for working fires, 1.4% for dumpsters or other small fires, 56.7% for medical calls and the rest are a mix match of various rescue calls, "smoke investigations," fire alarms, etc.
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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby Homer » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:44 pm

th wrote:My local fire department releases fairly detailed call statistics in their annual report each year. They are showing 7.7% of calls are for working fires, 1.4% for dumpsters or other small fires, 56.7% for medical calls and the rest are a mix match of various rescue calls, "smoke investigations," fire alarms, etc.

The interesting thing is that volunteer departments in isolated communities often are able to respond much more quickly than an ambulance, and therefore unquestionably provide a useful service. And yet they tend to have less training than the big city departments where the ambulance is only a minute behind the fire trucks.
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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby No 20 Year Medal » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:58 pm

Shawshank wrote:Can you contest the bill?
Good luck trying...

http://news.ca.msn.com/ontario/oshawa/oshawa-angler-on-the-hook-for-scugog-rescue-bill
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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby Respond Wayne » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:11 pm

48highlander wrote:
Respond Wayne wrote: there is a pretty good chance you will die within a few years after a career of breathing in toxic crap!


For the guys who got on a few decades ago, that may surely be the case. But for someone joining say Toronto in the last few years, where (depending on the year) actual fires only make up 1% of calls, the career of breathing in toxic fumes doesn't really wash.


Only time will tell I suppose... It takes just that one call where they mask up outside with smoke billowing out of the building, then later they find out what was burning is toxic...

Ha, just as I'm typing this, a new commercial for Axe Apollo came on the TV... a Firefighter with zero protective equipment on rescues a young lady, she's all impressed until an Astronaut walks up on scene, and off she runs to be with him... Yeah, it's an Axe commercial, it doesn't need to make sense...
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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby th » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:47 pm

Homer wrote:
th wrote:My local fire department releases fairly detailed call statistics in their annual report each year. They are showing 7.7% of calls are for working fires, 1.4% for dumpsters or other small fires, 56.7% for medical calls and the rest are a mix match of various rescue calls, "smoke investigations," fire alarms, etc.

The interesting thing is that volunteer departments in isolated communities often are able to respond much more quickly than an ambulance, and therefore unquestionably provide a useful service. And yet they tend to have less training than the big city departments where the ambulance is only a minute behind the fire trucks.

Its a composite department based out of 2 (soon to be 3) halls with 27 fulltime staff and 30 paid-on-call responding to 3500 calls per year. Not Toronto or Vancouver of course, but also not Uncle Joe's Volunteer Fire Brigade either ... ;)

Of course the EMS station in town has 15 fulltime and 20 parttime staff and responds to about 8000 calls per year ...
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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby 48highlander » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:03 am

Punisher-One wrote:I'd be interested to see the statistics on how many calls the FD attends that are actually fires.


For Toronto http://www.toronto.ca/fire/annual_repor ... report.pdf 2011 is the latest year available. Page 10 has the stats. For this year it lists 7% of their calls as fires, but what I would be interested to know is the stats regarding what kind of fires (vehicle fires, gigantic multi-alarm blazes, small grass fires etc. )

Respond Wayne wrote:Only time will tell I suppose... It takes just that one call where they mask up outside with smoke billowing out of the building, then later they find out what was burning is toxic...


Then they should be donning full PPE prior to arriving at the call, or at least before they get out of the truck. This may be difficult for a volunteer, I grant that, but for large municipal service, it shouldn't be an issue. If they aren't, what ever happens afterwards is a personal problem, and I have no sympathy.

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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby Sly » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:32 pm

Firefighters.....still use less tax dollars then the Canadian Senate....

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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby RemingtonSteel » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:27 am

No 20 Year Medal wrote:
Shawshank wrote:Can you contest the bill?
Good luck trying...

http://news.ca.msn.com/ontario/oshawa/oshawa-angler-on-the-hook-for-scugog-rescue-bill


I actually hope he gets a lawyer and makes an issue out of it. I have a huge problem with the FD sending people a 5,000 dollar bill to be rescued when they call 911. That's why we pay taxes - so we can have these services. Yes the guy was kinda dumb to go out there on that day, but come on - where do we draw the line? At what point does the FD decide to bill and not to bill?

Plus it begs the question of how many deaths will occur in the future because people will avoid calling for help because they fear being saddled with some insane bill.
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Re: A nation of $100,000 firefighters

Postby APM » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:21 am

Perhaps the $5000 was to cover the calendar photo shoot they had to cancel when they got called out to the rescue. This would fall outside of their regular operating expenses.


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