Thin Ice & Common Sense

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
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gotchya
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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby gotchya » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:23 pm

basketcase wrote:Fuck the taxpayers. They have to pay no matter what. The people going out to rescue these idiots are who matter.


I couldn't agree more, these idiots not only endangered themselves but those who are rescuing them. But their stupidity did cost taxpayers thousands. They should be sent a bill for it.

The taxpayer shouldn't be paying for others stupidity.
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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby Columbo » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:38 pm

Bullshit. People drive in whiteout conditions and get in accidents far more frequently that we don't bill for getting into accidents. Unless the behaviour that leads to a thin ice accident and subsequent rescue is malicious, grossly negligent, and willful, the public is owed a duty to be rescued. That's the whole basis behind emergency response. What's next, charge boaters for their rescues when they know the water is choppy and turns out to wholly unsafe conditions? No snowmobiler sets out to fall through the ice.
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gotchya
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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby gotchya » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:43 pm

Columbo wrote:Bullshit. People drive in whiteout conditions and get in accidents far more frequently that we don't bill for getting into accidents. Unless the behaviour that leads to a thin ice accident and subsequent rescue is malicious, grossly negligent, and willful, the public is owed a duty to be rescued.

I'm not suggesting that they don't get rescued, simply that they pay for their rescue.

That's the whole basis behind emergency response. What's next, charge boaters for their rescues when they know the water is choppy and turns out to wholly unsafe conditions? No snowmobiler sets out to fall through the ice.

If they've received countless warnings and persisted in their stupidity, sure send them the bill.
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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby Punisher-One » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:05 pm

gotchya wrote:If they've received countless warnings and persisted in their stupidity, sure send them the bill.


Agreed.

People need to take ownership for their own decisions at some point. We've become too much of a nanny-state where nobody needs to think and if someone doesn't think for them then it's someone elses fault. It's complete crap. Take some fucking responsibility for your own safety and use your damn head to think about your decisions for once.

You shouldn't have to be told that ice is thin when winter is warm...you should have the intelligence to know that. However we still warn you via commercials, signs, newspaper ads, and radio spots. If you are still so fucking ignorant that you want to risk your life and the lives of all the people that will need to rescue you then that is your decision....pay for the consequences with tens of thousands of dollars and maybe you'll think twice next time.

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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby Bald Man » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:50 pm

Don't we get charged for ambulance services now? These types of rescues are very draining of resources. It's very expensive to deploy helicopters. Look, these people made a choice to walk out on think ice despite numerous warnings, they should be sent the bill. If a boater becomes capsized, that's a different story.

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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby 48highlander » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:37 pm

Bald Man wrote:Don't we get charged for ambulance services now?


Now? There has been a service fee for years. A low fee, if you actually needed an ambulance, and a much higher one if you didn't.

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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby gotchya » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:15 pm

Force Recon wrote:You shouldn't have to be told that ice is thin when winter is warm...you should have the intelligence to know that.

Exactly, this winter has been warm...I wouldn't go on ice in a normal winter without assurance the ice was thick enough, even less so in a warm winter where I didn't crack out my "real winter jacket".
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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby meathead1 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:33 pm

48highlander wrote:
Bald Man wrote:Don't we get charged for ambulance services now?


Now? There has been a service fee for years. A low fee, if you actually needed an ambulance, and a much higher one if you didn't.


That has been around for ages. I'm 34 now and when I was 15 I got thrown through a plate glass window in a fight and nearly bled to death. My parents got the ambulance bill back then.
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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby Punisher-One » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:52 am

48highlander wrote:Now? There has been a service fee for years. A low fee, if you actually needed an ambulance, and a much higher one if you didn't.


The "much higher" one is pretty much NEVER used.

My GF is a medic and says that it requires the DRs signature to administer the fee. The DR must sign saying that the patient did not need an ambulance ride. No DRs will sign because they are afraid people will hesitate to call ambulances and then die as a result. Thus if you cough and fart at the same time you can call an ambulance penalty free!

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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby 48highlander » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:12 am

Force Recon wrote:
48highlander wrote:Now? There has been a service fee for years. A low fee, if you actually needed an ambulance, and a much higher one if you didn't.


The "much higher" one is pretty much NEVER used.

My GF is a medic and says that it requires the DRs signature to administer the fee. The DR must sign saying that the patient did not need an ambulance ride. No DRs will sign because they are afraid people will hesitate to call ambulances and then die as a result. Thus if you cough and fart at the same time you can call an ambulance penalty free!


On my medic co-op (going way back now) it got used quite a bit, at least out in Scarborough. Doc's in the ERs there (at least back then) had very little patience for people who clearly didn't need an ambulance (I talking people who litterally told us, they were too lazy/cheap to call a taxi, and figured showing up in ambulance would mean they would get seen faster. :roll: )

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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby Punisher-One » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:12 pm

Heard on CTV News tonight....each one of the fisherman rescued has been fined $4900ea.

Awesome! :thumbsup:

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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby HwyBear » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:33 pm

agree with colombo in some regards as in that everyone in the ditch also needs to be tapped up with a bill from the gov't, all their stupidity in not slowing down, here ya go, $500 a pop should cover, dispatch, police attendance, we all know fire and ems already bill back to the person if they show up
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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby Snowman » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:10 pm

HwyBear wrote:agree with colombo in some regards as in that everyone in the ditch also needs to be tapped up with a bill from the gov't, all their stupidity in not slowing down, here ya go, $500 a pop should cover, dispatch, police attendance, we all know fire and ems already bill back to the person if they show up


That sounds like a good idea ! Want to go faster than conditions allow for & put in the weeds, here's your service fee.
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Re: Thin Ice & Common Sense

Postby Econoline » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:55 pm

Some fire departments already charge service fees, for example the city of Edmonton "Emergency Response Fee" for a non MVA dangerous goods incident starts at $250.00. I'm not sure what other services they can charge for, or what it's like in other cities across Canada. It's not a bad idea for emergency services to send the bill to people who get into trouble for their own stupidity... stupid people keep us all employed. :D


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